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New Covenant
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grissom6471
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New Covenant

Sigh. Why do people keep asking about this?

The new covenant was foreshadowed by the old covenant. So what was true of the old is true of the new.

The old was between Jehovah God and Israel with Moses as the mediator.

The new is between Jehovah God and spiritual Israel with Jesus as mediator.

Spiritual Israel is only 144,000 in number. The rest of the ones are not part of the new covenant but benefit from it.

01-07-2007 06:21 PM
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Manirus
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RE: New Covenant

Well that is one view. :)

01-07-2007 09:50 PM
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man hu
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RE: New Covenant

Quote:
Grissom:  Sigh.  Why do people keep asking about this?

"The new covenant was forshadowed by the old covenant.  So what was true of the old is true of the new.

The old was between Jehovah God and Israel with Moses as the mediator.

The new is between Jehovah God and spiritual Israel with Jesus as  mediator.
                 
Spiritual Israel is only 144,000 in number 
 ..........The rest of the ones are not part of the new covenant but benefit from it."


Brilliant points  Grissom!


Now there is just one teeny weeny thing I would like you to prove scripturally..... the PURPLE bit!  Then of course that rider you added; that relies on the purple bit

You said "Spiritual Israel = 144,000".

The 144,000 were taken out of the twelve tribes of spiritual Israel, so how can they also be the whole group? (Who are the rest? what happens to them?)

Please also consider Romans 11:16.
"If the part taken as firstfruits is holy, the lump is also"

Fun and joy, love vicky

Finally what is it with all the numbers after your name? .......6471? Are you into train spotting?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1sj2gQJIKI
01-07-2007 10:12 PM
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Seraphim
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RE: New Covenant

:D

01-07-2007 10:35 PM
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e-magine
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RE: New Covenant

Questions I had about  the New Covenant, with scriptural and Watchtower answers. I highlighted the words I thought most pertinent.

*What is the NC?

   Lk.22:19 Also, he took a loaf, gave thanks, broke it, and gave it to them, saying: “This means my body which is to be given in YOUR behalf. Keep doing this in remembrance of me.” 20 Also, the cup in the same way after they had the evening meal, he saying: “This cup means the new covenant by virtue of my blood, which is to be poured out in YOUR behalf.
   Heb. 9: 14 how much more will the blood of the Christ, who through an everlasting spirit offered himself without blemish to God, cleanse our consciences from dead works that we may render sacred service to [the] living God?
1Peter 3: . 18 Why, even Christ died once for all time concerning sins, a righteous [person] for unrighteous ones, that he might lead YOU to God, he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit.
19 In this [state] also he went his way and preached to the spirits in prison,
20 who had once been disobedient when the patience of God was waiting in Noah’s days, while the ark was being constructed, in which a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water.
21 That which corresponds to this is also now saving YOU, namely, baptism, (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the request made to God for a good conscience,) through the resurrection of Jesus ChristHeb. 9: 14 how much more will the blood of the Christ, who through an everlasting spirit offered himself without blemish to God, cleanse our consciences from dead works that we may render sacred service to [the] living God?
15 So that is why he is a mediator of a new covenant, in order that, because a death has occurred for [their] release by ransom from the transgressions under the former covenant, the ones who have been called might receive the promise of the everlasting inheritance.   .

*What are the 3 main benefits of being in the NC?

1)  1 Peter 3:21, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the request made to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
2) Heb 9:14 that we may render sacred service to [the] living God?
3)  Ro. 6: . 23 For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord.
Math 25:33: 33 And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left.
34 “Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, YOU who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for YOU from the founding of the world

*Who is the mediator of the NC, and the other parties?

  Heb. 9:15 So that is why he is a mediator of a new covenant, in order that, because a death has occurred for [their] release by ransom from the transgressions under the former covenant, the ones who have been called might receive the promise of the everlasting inheritance. 1Tim. 2: 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all

Watchtower comments:
Watchtower 1979 April 1 p.31- “ Is Jesus the “mediator” only for anointed Christians?… So in this strict Biblical sense Jesus is the “mediator” only for anointed Christians. …The “great crowd” of “other sheep” that is forming today is not in that new covenant.

Jn. 5: 24 Most truly I say to YOU, He that hears my word and believes him that sent me has everlasting life, and he does not come into judgment but has passed over from death to life..”
Ro. *: 14 For all who are led by God’s spirit, these are God’s sons.

Watchtower 1979 November 15 p.27 Benefiting from “One Mediator Between God and Men”
“They recognize that they are not spiritual Israelites in the new covenant mediated by Jesus Christ, nor part of the “chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation.”—1 Pet. 2:9.

WT ’03 2/15, 19 Anointed Christians are certain of their heavenly hope, of their having been taken into the new covenant. Jesus mentioned it when he instituted the Memorial and said: “This cup means the new covenant by virtue of my blood, which is to be poured out in your behalf.” (Luke 22:20) The parties to the new covenant are God and anointed ones. (Jeremiah 31:31-34; Hebrews 12:22-24) Jesus is the mediator. Made operative by Christ’s shed blood, the new covenant took out not only from the Jews but also from the nations a people for Jehovah’s name and made them part of Abraham’s “seed.”

Gla. 3: 26 YOU are all, in fact, sons of God through YOUR faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of YOU who were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female; for YOU are all one [person] in union with Christ Jesus. 29 Moreover, if YOU belong to Christ, YOU are really Abraham’s seed, heirs with reference to a promise.


*Who are the  beneficiaries of the NC, that are instructed by Jesus to keep it in memorial?

Acts 6: 53 Accordingly Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to YOU, Unless YOU eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, YOU have no life in yourselves. 54 He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I shall resurrect him at the last day

WT ’86 2/15, Thus, according to the context of John 6:53, having “life in yourselves” would here mean entering at last into the very fullness of life. The “little flock” of Kingdom heirs experience this at their resurrection into the heavens. The “other sheep” experience it after the end of the thousand years, when they are tested and declared righteous for everlasting life in the Paradise earth.—1 John 3:2; Revelation 20:4, 5.
14 Others, too, can benefit from the “bread from heaven.” Jesus said of the one that ‘eats his flesh and drinks his blood’ but who dies: “I shall resurrect him at the last day.” It is understood that anointed Christians sleeping in death are raised at the sounding of “the last trumpet,” which takes place during the “manifestation” of Jesus Christ in Kingdom glory

   1Pet3:21 That which corresponds to this is also now saving YOU, namely, baptism, (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the request made to God for a good conscience,) through the resurrection of Jesus Christ
  Jn6:45 It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by Jehovah.’ Everyone that has heard from the Father (called) and has learned comes to me.
  1Tim2: 4 whose will is that all sorts of men should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus.
  .Jn6: 54 He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I shall resurrect him at the last day;
55 for my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in union with me, and I in union with him.
57 Just as the living Father sent me forth and I live because of the Father, he also that feeds on me, even that one will live because of me.
58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. It is not as when YOUR forefathers ate and yet died. He that feeds on this bread will live forever.”
59 These things he said as he was teaching in public assembly at Ca•per´na•um
   .Jn6: 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone that beholds the Son and exercises faith in him should have everlasting life, and I will resurrect him at the last day.”
Jn6:47 Most truly I say to YOU, He that believes has everlasting life.
John 17: 3 This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge….or, “having knowledge”Jer. 31:31 “Look! There are days coming,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “and I will conclude with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah a new covenant;
32 not one like the covenant that I concluded with their forefathers in the day of my taking hold of their hand to bring them forth out of the land of Egypt, ‘which covenant of mine they themselves broke, although I myself had husbandly ownership of them,’ is the utterance of Jehovah.”
    33 “For this is the covenant that I shall conclude with the house of Israel after those days,” is the utterance of Jehovah. “I will put my law within them, and in their heart I shall write it. And I will become their God, and they themselves will become my people.”
  

*Was Judas present when Jesus inaugurated the NC and passed the bread and wine?

LK. 22:19 Also, he took a loaf, gave thanks, broke it, and gave it to them, saying: “This means my body which is to be given in YOUR behalf. Keep doing this in remembrance of me.” 20 Also, the cup in the same way after they had the evening meal, he saying: “This cup means the new covenant by virtue of my blood, which is to be poured out in YOUR behalf.
21 “But, look! the hand of my betrayer is with me at the table.



*How numerous are the people  in the NC?

Gen17:3 At this A´bram fell upon his face, and God continued to speak with him, saying: 4 “As for me, look! my covenant is with you, and you will certainly become a father of a crowd of nations.
Heb9:6 For not all who [spring] from Israel are really “Israel.” 7 Neither because they are Abraham’s seed are they all children, but: “What will be called ‘your seed’ will be through Isaac.” 8 That is, the children in the flesh are not really the children of God, but the children by the promise are counted as the seed.Heb8:6-11 “‘Look! There are days coming,’ says Jehovah, ‘and I will conclude with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah a new covenant; 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their forefathers in [the] day of my taking hold of their hand to bring them forth out of the land of Egypt, because they did not continue in my covenant, so that I stopped caring for them,’ says Jehovah.”
10 “‘For this is the covenant that I shall covenant with the house of Israel after those days,’ says Jehovah. ‘I will put my laws in their mind, and in their hearts I shall write them. And I will become their God, and they themselves will become my people.
11 “‘And they will by no means teach each one his fellow citizen and each one his brother, saying: “Know Jehovah!” For they will all know me, from [the] least one to [the] greatest one of them.



*How do the following scriptures show that the number in the N C are more numerous then those in the Old Law Covenant to Moses?

  Gen. 26: 3 …and I will carry out the sworn statement that I swore to Abraham your father, 4 ‘And I will multiply your seed like the stars of the heavens
  Math. 20: 28 Just as the Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his soul a ransom in exchange for many.”

Gla.4:22…. it is written that Abraham acquired two sons, one by the servant girl and one by the free woman; 23 but the one by the servant girl was actually born in the manner of flesh, the other by the free woman through a promise. 24 These things stand as a symbolic drama; for these [women] mean two covenants, the one from Mount Si´nai, which brings forth children for slavery, and which is Ha´gar. 25 Now this Ha´gar means Si´nai, a mountain in Arabia, and she corresponds with the Jerusalem today, for she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother.
27 For it is written: “Be glad, you barren woman (Sarah) who does not give birth; break out and cry aloud, you woman who does not have childbirth pains; for the children of the desolate woman (Sarah) are more numerous than [those] of her (Hagar) who has the husband.” 28 Now we, brothers, are children belonging to the promise the same as Isaac was.
.

*What is the Kingdom Covenant Jesus also inaugurates  in Luke Ch 22, that has no mediator?

28 “However, YOU are the ones that have stuck with me in my trials; 29 and I make a covenant with YOU, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, 30 that YOU may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the twelve tribes of Israel.

* How many are in the Kingdom Covenant?

W T comments, gt, pg, 115 states,
“Despite their imperfections, the apostles have stuck with Jesus during his trials. So he says: “I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom.” This personal covenant between Jesus and his loyal followers joins them to him to share his royal dominion. Only a limited number of 144,000 are finally taken into this covenant for a Kingdom.”
*Are there  2  covenants in Luke ch.22, or 1?

  Rom. 9: 4 who, as such, are Israelites, to whom belong the adoption as sons and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the sacred service and the promises;


*What will be the purpose of the Kingdom Covenant?


Lk. 22;30 that YOU may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the twelve tribes of Israel.
Rev.20:6, . 6 Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years.
*Was Judas present when Jesus spoke of the KC ?

No, he was dismissed by this time.




*Where do these kings and priests come from?

Rev. 7:4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel: Abraham’s seed (12K from each)29 Moreover, if YOU belong to Christ, YOU are really Abraham’s seed, heirs with reference to a promise.


*Who are the Sons of Israel?

Ro. 2: 29 But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and [his] circumcision is that of the heart by spirit, and not by a written code.
Gla. 6:15 For neither is circumcision anything nor is uncircumcision, but a new creation [is something]. 16 And all those who will walk orderly by this rule of conduct, upon them be peace and mercy, even upon the Israel of God. .
Rom, 8:14 For all who are led by God’s spirit, these are God’s sons. 15 For YOU did not receive a spirit of slavery causing fear again, but YOU received a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit we cry out: “Abba, Father!” 16 The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17 If, then, we are children, we are also heirs: heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ, provided we suffer together that we may also be glorified together.
Gla.,4: 4 But when the full limit of the time arrived, God sent forth his Son, who came to be out of a woman and who came to be under law, 5 that he might release by purchase those under law, that we, in turn, might receive the adoption as sons.
6 Now because YOU are sons, God has sent forth the spirit of his Son into our hearts and it cries out: “Abba, Father!”

*When will those in the Kingdom Covenant  be sealed (chosen) out of the sons and  be anointed as Kings, , members of the Heavenly little flock?

  Math.24:29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in lamentation, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send forth his angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity.  (1 Thes. 4:16 describes this)
  1Thes. 4: 16 because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first.  Rev 11:15 – The seventh angel blew his trumpet. And loud voices occurred in heaven, saying: 'The kingdom of the world did become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will rule as king forever and ever.'
Rev 20:6 – "Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years."
Rev. 7: 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the sun rising, having a seal of [the] living God; and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3 saying: “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until after we have sealed the slaves of our God in their foreheads.”4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand,

*Can anyone  at this time, claim to be a sealed member of the 144,000, little flock ?

1Cor. 15: We shall not all fall asleep [in death], but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, during the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Phip. 3: 12 Not that I have already received it or am already made perfect, but I am pursuing to see if I may also lay hold on that for which I have also been laid hold on by Christ Jesus. 13 Brothers, I do not yet consider myself as having laid hold on [it]; but there is one thing about it: Forgetting the things behind and stretching forward to the things ahead,
14 I am pursuing down toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God by means of Christ Jesus.
   Gla.4: 5 that he might release by purchase those under law, that we, in turn, might receive the adoption as sons…

Watchtower comment on Gla. 4:5:
It 1 pg. 54;…… . Through purchase by means of Christ Jesus, they receive the adoption as sons and also become heirs with Christ, the only-begotten Son of God. (Ga 4:1-7; Ro 8:14-17) They do not come by such son ship naturally but by God’s choice and according to his will. (Eph 1:5) While acknowledged as God’s children, or sons, from the time of God’s begetting them by his spirit (1Jo 3:1; Joh 1:12, 13), their full realization of this privilege as spirit sons of God is dependent on their ultimate faithfulness. (Ro 8:17; Re 21:7) Thus, Paul speaks of them as “earnestly waiting for adoption as sons, the release from our bodies by ransom.”—Ro 8:23.
Ro. 8: . 14 For all who are led by God’s spirit, these are God’s sons.
Math. 22: 14 “For there are many invited, but few chosen

* In 1 Thes. 4:17, did Paul mean that the future “adoption as spirit sons” of these ones  would be a single event in time?

   1 thes. 4”\:14 For if our faith is that Jesus died and rose again, so, too, those who have fallen asleep [in death] through Jesus God will bring with him. 15 For this is what we tell YOU by Jehovah’s word, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord shall in no way precede (be resurrected before) those who have fallen asleep [in death]; 16 because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s
trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. 17 Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, and at the same time, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall always be with [the] Lord. ….NWT Ref. Bi. Footnote
   1 Corinthians 15:52 – in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, during the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
   Rev.7: 3 saying: “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until after we have sealed the slaves of our God in their foreheads.”

*In what sense can Christians be anointed, if the sealing is yet future?

Youngs concordance on “anointed”; In Hebrew, there are 4 different words for the  word "anoint", also in Greek there are four words. Also in Hebrew, there are two words for "anointed" and three words for "anointing". In all cases "anoint" means a pouring out or rubbing on of something, usually oil. Sometimes this is for practical purposes, and more importantly for the ceremonial purpose of inaugurating a king, priest or a prophet. WT comments on these two meanings of anointing:
...it 1 113.
"The Bible often uses the Hebrew sukh and the Greek a•lei´pho for the commonplace greasing, or rubbing on of oil. (Da 10:3; Ru 3:3; Joh 11:2) But for a special anointing with oil, it generally uses the Hebrew word ma•shach´, from which the word ma•shi´ach (Messiah) comes, and the Greek word khri´o, from which comes khri•stos´ (Christ). (Ex 30:30; Le 4:5, ftn; Lu 4:18; Ac 4:26) This distinction is maintained quite consistently both in the Hebrew and in the Greek. Some versions of the Bible do not maintain this fine distinction but translate all such words by the one term “anoint.”
In this discussion, we are interested with the meaning of anointing with Holy Spirit, "spirit anointed", as it applies to the little flock.
In the Greek scriptures, the pouring out of HS has two applications, as with the case of oil anointing.
In one sense, people can be "spirit anointed" to positions of authority, as kings and priests.
In a second sense, HS can be poured out (an anointing) on people for the purpose of giving them special power.  Acts 1:8 but YOU will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon YOU,
  Acts 2:, 17 ‘“And in the last days,” God says, “I shall pour out some of my spirit upon every sort of flesh, and YOUR sons and YOUR daughters will prophesy and YOUR young men will see visions and YOUR old men will dream dreams;
  Acts 10: 45 And the faithful ones that had come with Peter who were of those circumcised were amazed, because the free gift of the holy spirit was being poured out also upon people of the nations. 46 For they heard them speaking with tongues and magnifying God. Then Peter responded: 47 “Can anyone forbid water so that these might not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit even as we have?”

WT comments on this type of pouring out of HS:

"92 WT 2/1 20, what a powerful force this spirit is! But how can Christians today avail themselves of it? First, Jesus said we should ask for it, so why not do just that? Pray to Jehovah to give you this wonderful gift not only in times of stress but on every occasion. In addition, read the Bible so that Holy Spirit can speak to you.
Wt 06 11/15 pg. 22, ..Pray for Holy Spirit, allow it to lead you.

*Was Jesus’ anointing for this purpose, or was he anointed as a king and priest?

  Heb. 1: 8 But with reference to the Son: “God is your throne forever and ever, and [the] scepter of your kingdom is the scepter of uprightness. 9 You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with [the] oil of exultation more than your partners


   it-1 pg 114; (concerning Jesus anointing)… Fulfilling many prophecies in the Hebrew Scriptures, Jesus of Nazareth proved to be the Anointed One of Jehovah and could properly be called Messiah, or Christ, which titles convey that thought. (Mt 1:16; Heb 1:8, 9) Instead of being anointed with literal oil, he was anointed with Jehovah’s spirit. (Mt 3:16) This was Jehovah’s appointment of him as King, Prophet, and High Priest, and so he was referred to as Jehovah’s Anointed. (Ps 2:2; Ac 3:20-26; 4:26, 27; Heb 5:5, 6) In his hometown of Nazareth, Jesus acknowledged this anointing when he applied to himself the prophecy of Isaiah 61:1, where the phrase appears: “Jehovah has anointed me.” (Lu 4:18) Jesus Christ is the only one in the Scriptures who holds an anointing to all three offices: prophet, high priest, and king. Jesus was anointed with “the oil of exultation more than [his] partners” (the other kings of the line of David). This was by reason of his receiving the anointing directly from Jehovah himself, not with oil but with holy spirit, not to an earthly kingship but to a heavenly one combined with the office of heavenly High Priest.—Heb 1:9;


*At what point in time , do the 144000 become spirit anointed to be Kings and priests?


  1 Cor. 15: 50 However, this I say, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s kingdom, neither does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Look! I tell YOU a sacred secret: We shall not all fall asleep [in death], but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, during the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up Incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this which is corruptible must put on incorruption, and this which is mortal must put on immortality.

*When is the last trumpet?

Rev. 11:14 The second woe is past. Look! The third woe is coming quickly.15 And the seventh angel blew his trumpet. And loud voices occurred in heaven, saying: “The kingdom of the world did become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will rule as king forever and ever.”
                                          Amen

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01-08-2007 10:29 PM
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RR144
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RE: New Covenant

grissom6471 Wrote:
Sigh.  Why do people keep asking about this?

Because people do not understand it.

The Old Law Covenant was between God and the Nation of Israel, the New Law Covenant is still made with the Nation of Israel and then with the world of mankind.

The 144,000 are not under the new covenant, they are under the Abrahamic (grace) Covenant. Abraham's seed.

RR


We are called to be witnesses, not lawyers or judges.

01-13-2007 02:04 AM
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freyd
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RE: New Covenant

And the law will be mediated by the 144,000 until mankind reaches perfection when there will no longer be a need of a mediator. Jesus is now the mediator between man and God in the sense that man cannot have direct access to the father. They must offer their prayers in Jesus' name. This we understand to be tentatively justified through exercise of faith in the ransom vis those who are fully justified and have had righteousness imputed, not through faith, but by being called directly by the Father, and who, if they make their calling and election sure will be kings and priests of God, and who along with Christ will be mediators of the New Law Covenant. The only question is how many are left in Christendom as it seems that most are now being called out of the JW's, before it along with the rest of Babylon collapses. :read::read:


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01-13-2007 09:16 AM
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gogh
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RE: New Covenant

RR144

Re: "The 144,000 are not under the new covenant,..."

Since when?

gogh


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01-13-2007 03:16 PM
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loving_truth
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RE: New Covenant

RR144 Wrote:

grissom6471 Wrote:
Sigh.  Why do people keep asking about this?

Because people do not understand it.

The Old Law Covenant was between God and the Nation of Israel, the New Law Covenant is still made with the Nation of Israel and then with the world of mankind.

The 144,000 are not under the new covenant, they are under the Abrahamic (grace) Covenant. Abraham's seed.

RR

Dear RR,

In his letter to the Hebrews Paul reinterprets the old OT-promise about the New Covenant and applies it to the Christians, not to the ethnic Israel (see Hebr. 10 and 12).

Russell's selective hermeneutic leads you to ignore how Jesus and the Apostles reinterpreted the Old Testament.

Philia, Loving Truth

01-13-2007 04:09 PM
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loving_truth
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Post: #10
RE: New Covenant

Spiritual Israel is only 144,000 in number.  The rest of the ones are not part of the new covenant but benefit from it.

A nice link about an other view: http://www.reachouttrust.org/articles/jw/jw144000.htm

Philia, Loving Truth

01-13-2007 05:13 PM
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RR144
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Post: #11
RE: New Covenant

gogh Wrote:
RR144 Re:  "The 144,000 are not under the new covenant,..." Since when?

Since He promised it to the Nation of Israel.

RR


We are called to be witnesses, not lawyers or judges.

01-13-2007 09:32 PM
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Totaldismay
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Post: #12
RE: New Covenant

Promised what?? pls expand yourthought

01-13-2007 09:42 PM
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e-magine
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Post: #13
RE: New Covenant

Ho peeps!
The not too clear point of my abstract above is that the New Covenant encompasses all Christians, and that from them, Jesus will select the little flock, members of the Kingdom Covenant. The WT tries to combine the two.:read:
Also, the application of the term "anointed" only to the little flock at this time is not scriptural. In the future, at the last trumpet blast, they will be anointed as Kings and Priests. Till then, we are all "anointed" with Holy Spirit as Jesus promised. Acts 1:8;
8 but YOU will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon YOU, and YOU will be witnesses of me both in Jerusalem and in all Ju·de´a and Sa·mar´i·a and to the most distant part of the earth.”


avatar:
Henry Ward Beecher-1872 Preacher of Plymouth Church, Brooklyn, in his home later bought by C.H. Russell.
He is looking at the Brooklyn Bridge,,,, is it the way into, or, out of Brooklyn for you?
01-13-2007 10:01 PM
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RR144
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Post: #14
RE: New Covenant

loving_truth Wrote:
Dear RR, In his letter to the Hebrews Paul reinterprets the old OT-promise about the New Covenant and applies it to the Christians, not to the ethnic Israel (see Hebr. 10 and 12).


Hmmm ... reinterpreted? Wouldn't that be an alteration of his promises? If God made a promise to Israel, shouldn't he keep it? As I understand it, God cannot lie? WOuldn't that be lying? Well, we could argue, he still kept his promise, he just redefined what :Israel" is ... that could be true, but that is an alteration, and God says, he will NEVER alter what he says. 'My covenant will I not break, Nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.' Psa 89:34

As to Hebrews 10 and 12, can you be a bit specific?

RR


We are called to be witnesses, not lawyers or judges.

01-13-2007 10:21 PM
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e-magine
Disciple of Newness


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Post: #15
RE: New Covenant

Hay Guys, doesn't this deserve its own thread???:confused:


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Henry Ward Beecher-1872 Preacher of Plymouth Church, Brooklyn, in his home later bought by C.H. Russell.
He is looking at the Brooklyn Bridge,,,, is it the way into, or, out of Brooklyn for you?
01-13-2007 10:30 PM
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