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The Mark of the Beast
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BruisedReed
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Post: #16
RE: The Mark of the Beast

Hello there TD ...:D:hibye:

Long time no see ...:giverose:;)

I'm sitting here trying to put some thoughts to 'paper' ... in order to give you some kind of answer ... hopefully some others will add their own as well ...:siskiss::love:

It would appear that there are different kinds of scrolls that will be opened in the future ... but the scroll that we would want to be written in is Christ Jesus' 'scroll of life' ... for example ...

Rev. 20:12 ...

12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. But another scroll was opened; it is the scroll of life. And the dead were judged out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds.


Rev. 21:27 ...

27 But anything not sacred and anyone that carries on a disgusting thing and a lie will in no way enter into it; only those written in the Lamb’s scroll of life [will].

Perhaps the SCROLL (S) that are mentioned there in Revelation 20 are what Christ Jesus and Jehovah keep a 'record' of us in ... maybe the same or similar to what is mentioned at Mal. 3:16 ...?

16 At that time those in fear of Jehovah spoke with one another, each one with his companion, and Jehovah kept paying attention and listening. And a book of remembrance began to be written up before him for those in fear of Jehovah and for those thinking upon his name.

Another word for 'book' in the Hebrew language is 'scroll' ... as is rendered here in Malachai ...

Also, in Dan. 12:1 it says ...

12 “And during that time Mi′cha·el will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of the sons of your people. And there will certainly occur a time of distress such as has not been made to occur since there came to be a nation until that time. And during that time your people will escape, every one who is found written down in the book.

So, it seems our names are 'written down' as a reminder of the things we did or didn't do in regards to our worship of our God ... and it seems that what is written in these 'books' or 'scrolls' will be the basis for our 'judgment' ... and will determine if our names will be placed in the 'book of life' ...

Rev. 3:5 shows that there will come a point where our names will be in this book PERMANENTLY ...

5 He that conquers will thus be arrayed in white outer garments; and I will by no means blot out his name from the book of life, but I will make acknowledgment of his name before my Father and before his angels.

Phil. 4:3 ...

3 Yes, I request you too, genuine yokefellow, keep assisting these [women] who have striven side by side with me in the good news along with Clement as well as the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.

How could they know that these faithful ones were written in this 'book of life' ...?

Heb. 6:10 ...

10 For God is not unrighteous so as to forget YOUR work and the love YOU showed for his name, in that YOU have ministered to the holy ones and continue ministering.

So, hopefully the things that are written about US ... will mostly be 'positive' things ...:blush::thumbup: and may our love for our God and Christ Jesus be sincere ... for then we can have our names put in the 'scroll of life' ...

But in order to KEEP IT THERE ... so that it will NOT be ERASED or BLOTTED OUT ... we need to prove our loyalty and faith to the END ... and then it will be PERMANENTLY there ...!!:thumbsup::cheer::cheer:

It would seem that anyone who doesn't eventually have their names written there won't have the reward of 'life' ...

However, those 'other' scrolls ... which have our 'good' and 'bad' written down in order to judged fairly ... if we prove faithful while alive now we can be in the 'book of life' ... for those who already 'died faithful' it seems their names are there ... and for those who may have been unrighteous at the time of their death ... if they repent and prove faithful during whatever period of time Jesus sees fit ... it may be that he will put their names in there if they prove faithful at that point ...

These are just some thoughts, meanderings and Scriptures ... nothing written in 'stone' as it is just off the top of my head ...

Luv to ya bro ... your sis BR :sheepy: :bouncyhearts:


http://bruisedreednotbroke.blogspot.com
02-07-2007 11:57 PM
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PropMin
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Post: #17
RE: The Mark of the Beast

Quote:
I agree 100% with Paul. People can make things as complicated as they wish, and read into things using the latest conspiracy claptrap -- I seriously doubt the mark of the beast has anything to do with getting a microchip or submission to a 'future 8th king'. Whatever. I believe it to be about our animal side and the side that comes alive when Christ is in our hearts.


DP,

Good to hear from you my man.

I don't think referencing the 8th king has anything to do with any "conspiracy theories", as the 8th King is mentioned in Gods Word as the last to rule, for one prophetic "hour" or "short time", and go off to perdition.

Please Note:

Rev 17
9 “Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. 10 There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. 11 The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition.

Does this mean a microchip?  Who knows?  I doubt it, but only at that time will everyone know what its about and decide.

:P

:prop:  :priest:


"When you stand before God you cannot say, "But I was told by others to do 'thus', or that 'virtue wasn't convenient at the time'", this will not suffice" - King Baldwin IV, 1184 A.D.

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02-08-2007 12:59 AM
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Beau Wetini
Me and my boy at the beach!


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Post: #18
RE: The Mark of the Beast

:hibye: < :clap: Hey Propmin!! :clap: > :hibye:




How are ya mate? My use of the term claptrap with the word conspiracy was not a good choice. I have been less than savoury with the terms I have been using of late, so, my bad!

I see things totally differently to most -- and, my view could be claptrap! Hehehe!! One thing is for sure -- like you said -- at that time, everyone will know! (though, I feel that time is now - :detective:)




Take care my brother!

your bro -- beau! :friends::hug::drinking:


LIVE THE KINGDOM NOW!!


02-10-2007 09:14 AM
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Paul
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Post: #19
RE: The Mark of the Beast

Hi All,

I found this post from another forum that I belong to. It had some interesting information about the number 666 that is mentioned in the book of Revelation.

Quote:
And finally, I found an article in 2003 reporting that a professor at the University of Birmingham in England discovered that the number 616 is the correct "mark of the beast". An examination of a fragment of papyrus, dated 300 AD, revealed 616 and not 666 in this actual fragment from the Book from Revelation. He stated that 616 represented the name of the Emperor Caligula; 616 being "gematria" (numbers assigned to letters of his title, "Gaius Caesar").


That is very intriguing. I feel that the contents of the book of Revelation were meant for the first century and not any other time period. Every end time expositor that has tried to apply its contents to their time has seen its prophecies end in failure. The first century Christians mistakenly believed that Christ's return was imminent in their day. Of course, it never happened. And every generation that has followed the first century has tried to apply the prophecies found in Revelation to their time period because they felt that the words were meant for their time. They all still died without any of those prophecies being fulfilled. I say that it is a waste of time to to try and apply these words to our day because the very same thing will happen as happened to the first century Christians and to all the Christians that existed in the intervening centuries up to our day.

If we believe that we all have a bit of the beast in us and that God and his Son will help us to rise above our beastlike tendencies, then the prophecy can at least have some practical benefit. Christ wants us to change who we are on the inside, to conform our personalities and our traits to the perfect personality and traits of the Father. That is far more important than waiting in vain for a wild beast that will rule over the world, wreaking havoc upon mankind.

Love,
Paul

02-11-2007 11:23 AM
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gogh
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Post: #20
RE: The Mark of the Beast

Hi Paul

Re: "...than waiting in vain for a wild beast that will rule over the world,..."

Did followers of Christ "wait in vain" for the Romans to come to attack their home? Or did they demonstrate balance in living a Christ like life (following in his footsteps closely), yet also kept on the watch so as to recognize details of Jesus warnings?

Christian love,

gogh


"......."This is my Son, whom I have chosen. Keep listening to him!" Luke 9:35
02-11-2007 03:55 PM
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draka
Omnia mutantur nihil interit


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Post: #21
RE: The Mark of the Beast

Paul Wrote:
Hi All,

I found this post from another forum that I belong to. It had some interesting information about the number 666 that is mentioned in the book of Revelation.

[quote]And finally, I found an article in 2003 reporting that a professor at the University of Birmingham in England discovered that the number 616 is the correct "mark of the beast". An examination of a fragment of papyrus, dated 300 AD, revealed 616 and not 666 in this actual fragment from the Book from Revelation. He stated that 616 represented the name of the Emperor Caligula; 616 being "gematria" (numbers assigned to letters of his title, "Gaius Caesar").


That's kinda cool, and if it's true, it would certainly leave the world guessing, now wouldn't it? I'm not sure how in the end it will all pan out...though wasn't Caligula the caeser who waged war on Neptune and sent his soldiers to the beach to stab at the water??


Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum
02-12-2007 09:17 PM
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Bangalore
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Post: #22
RE: The Mark of the Beast

Here is what the Watchtower taught regarding The Mark of the Beast in the time of Br Russell.

Watchtower January/February 1882 pp.9,10 ***
'THE NAME OF THE BEAST, OR THE NUMBER OF HIS NAME.'
Q. Have you been able to decipher the name and number? I have heard of many who have tried all sorts of names and applications, but none of them ever seemed reasonable to me.

A. The same has been my difficulty. A little over a year ago I spoke on the subject of this same chapter to the name-less little company of 'this way,' in Lynn, Mass. , and concluded my remarks by telling them that I had never seen a satisfactory explanation of the 666. And, though I thought I had given a correct analysis of the symbols of the chapter, yet I could not claim it to be wisdom, since I could not interpret the number. I suggested, however, that if ours be the correct understanding of the time in which we are living-the 'harvest' of the age-and if our general application of these symbols be correct, the number should soon be understood. I urged examination on the subject by all, for the Lord is sometimes pleased to give wisdom through the weakest of his children. 'Out of the mouths of babes and sucklings thou hast ordained praise. '

About three months after, I received a long letter from one of the thinking brethren of that place, saying that he thought he had the key; and I think he has; it certainly fits the lock in every particular. I will give it to you very much as he suggested it.

His process of reasoning was as follows: Jesus, who gave this revelation to us (Rev. 1:1), well knew that this symbol could not be understood until about the present time, for the reason that the Image was only made in 1846. Jesus also knew, of course, that English would be the language used by probably four-fifths of his earnest truth-seeking children, in the 'time of the end. He knew, also, that not many wise, not many great, not many learned in all languages would be of the chosen 'little flock. ' Moreover, it was his custom to adapt his teachings to the 'common people,' and of this sort his Jewels have been from, the twelve disciples and since. Therefore it would appear that the number 666, should be open to the comprehension of us all — we being the ones told to count — as much so as were the other symbolic numbers of Danl. and Rev. Let us try, then, to apply these figures in English.*(This is the first application in English, known to the writer, but the reasonableness of it is obvious.)

First, then, the number is that of the (first) BEAST. Let us see whether it will apply to some of its names, That system which Paul calls the man of sin is the

Roman Catholic power = 666.
12345 61234561 23456

He is in Revelation called a BEAST
Roman Catholic 'Beast' = 666.

The system is also called the 'woman' (Rev. 17:18)
Roman Catholic 'woman' = 666.

She calls herself the
'Holy Catholic Church' = 666.

She is really and truly (Rev. 17:5) 'The Mother of Harlots' = 666.

Thus we see that the number fits the BEAST well.

The second BEAST was anxious to have exactly the same name, and in fact it claimed to have the pre-eminent right to the name— 'Holy Catholic church,' = 666.

Other names by which it is often known, are —
'English State Church,' = 666.
'The Episcopal Church,' = 666.
'Episcopalian Church,' = 666.
'The Church of England,' = 666.

This application of the number, will doubtless appear to some too simple to be accepted, but thus God ever deals with us—hiding truth under the vail of its own simplicity, so that it may appear to the Greek (worldly wise) foolishness, but unto them which believe (not to those who believe without evidence, but who believe on the strongest kind of evidence —the harmony of His Word) the power of God, and the wisdom of God. (1 Cor. 1:23.)

The Image causes all who claim relationship, or whom it recognizes, as having a right to buy or sell - teach - to have as a creed, that which shall mark them as having either 'the name' of the BEAST, or the 'number' of his name - 666.

Many take the name and in their creeds recite, 'I believe in the 'Holy Catholic Church' = 666.

Among those who thus openly mark themselves in their forehead (by their creeds) are Episcopalians, Methodists, Presbyterians and others. But others give a seeming support (mark in their hand) to the general principal by organizing under various sectarian names. After these are blended in the IMAGE, (and no one would be admitted to membership in the Evangelical Alliance, unless he be a member of some such sect), they all are collectively known as the 'Protestant Churches,' = 666. Which we see contains the Beast's number.

If we for instance were to organize, though we protest more than all others against the errors of Rome, and also against the errors of the Image and second BEAST, yet we would not be reckoned one of the 'Protestant churches,' because we would not be recognized as orthodox—They would not count our organization a church.

Should you inquire for our meetings and ask — Is that a protestant church which meets here? the answer would come — Oh, no; they are not Evangelical. They have no creed to mark them, so that the Alliance can decide whether they are an Evangelical Protestant Church or not.

Warm Christian Love
Bangalore


"While producing people who were outwardly moral, they subverted the essential qualities of humility, compassion and mercy." - Raymond Franz
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02-13-2007 12:23 PM
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Jeshurun
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Post: #23
RE: The Mark of the Beast

As I have said on other threads, sometimes guys spill their guts when they become gravely ill, and see things in a different light (maybe).

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/jan...ergoal.htm


"My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you." -Galatians 4:19
02-19-2007 01:51 PM
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digging
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Post: #24
RE: The Mark of the Beast

Perhaps we can understand by contrasting it with the name that Jesus writes on the righteous? Rev 3?

Who can see the seal of God on us? Who can see the name written on us??

Digging

02-22-2007 04:06 AM
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honortheking
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Post: #25
RE: The Mark of the Beast

the mark?


No one will enter the New World Order unless he or she will make a
pledge to worship Lucifer. No one will enter the New Age unless he
will take a Luciferian Initiation." - David Spangler, Director of The
Planetary Initiative of the UNITED NATIONS

03-09-2007 10:08 AM
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man hu
Babe and any other piggy names


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Post: #26
RE: The Mark of the Beast

honortheking Wrote:
No one will enter the New World Order unless he or she will make a
pledge to worship Lucifer. No one will enter the New Age unless he
will take a Luciferian Initiation." - David Spangler, Director of The
Planetary Initiative of the UNITED NATIONS

?????????
Hmm...... it will definitely be demonic. It will be satan's last ditch  attempt, since I think at this time he will have been cast out of heaven.
I also think we will have already seen  at this point tangible evidence of Jesus and his kingdom.
My suggestion is, do not attach your little stickers to the beasties before they rear their ugly heads, like prematurely trying to 'pin the tail on the donkey' when the donkey isn't even there.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1sj2gQJIKI
03-09-2007 11:25 AM
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PropMin
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Post: #27
RE: The Mark of the Beast

Quote:
I feel that the contents of the book of Revelation were meant for the first century and not any other time period.


I continue to be amazed at comments like this.

Question: If John wrote the book of Revelation toward the end of the 1st century (or even if he wrote it earlier), and it was meant only for the 1st century, then whats the point of presenting in signs and symbols?

It would be like me writing about the current world situation in sign and symbols, why? Whats the point?

Think folks; think.

pm


"When you stand before God you cannot say, "But I was told by others to do 'thus', or that 'virtue wasn't convenient at the time'", this will not suffice" - King Baldwin IV, 1184 A.D.

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03-09-2007 12:01 PM
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donbodo
Tell me that again...


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Post: #28
RE: The Mark of the Beast

PropMin Wrote:
Question: If John wrote the book of Revelation toward the end of the 1st century (or even if he wrote it earlier), and it was meant only for the 1st century, then whats the point of presenting in signs and symbols?


Because open criticism of the emperor would result in death. The signs and symbols were a protection.

For example, let's say I lived in North Korea and wanted to write something against the government. You'd better believe that I wouldn't say it openly. I'd have to use symbolic language, so that I could deny it if I got caught.

------
By the way, David Spangler is a New Age mystic. He is not an official member of the UN. The "Planetary Initiative," if it exists, might be a pro-UN group, but it is not a part of the UN.


"Learn the rule: 'Do not go beyond the things that are written,' in order that you may not be puffed up individually in favor of the one against the other" (1 Cor. 4:6).
03-09-2007 12:30 PM
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PropMin
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Post: #29
RE: The Mark of the Beast

donbodo Wrote:

PropMin Wrote:
Question: If John wrote the book of Revelation toward the end of the 1st century (or even if he wrote it earlier), and it was meant only for the 1st century, then whats the point of presenting  in signs and symbols?  


Because open criticism of the emperor would result in death. The signs and symbols were a protection.

For example, let's say I lived in North Korea and wanted to write something against the government. You'd better believe that I wouldn't say it openly. I'd have to use symbolic language, so that I could deny it if I got caught.


Lets think about this...

This was not 'open criticism' of a Roman Emperor. This is not what Rev 13 is about ("criticism").

John wrote this on the Isle of Patmos and no printing presses existed in his day. They didn't mass produce media. If the message (of the Mark) was about an Emperor in Rome why wasn't it communicated verbally throughout the body of Christians?

Scrolls/Parchments (whatever) were handcopied and it took time to do so; how many Christians would be reached by this method of communicating, and would they have time to figure out the 'signs and symbols'? If I had knowledge of a govt. plot (the mark,etc.) to kill Christians or enslave people and it was a right now urgent matter (as it would have been if Rev. was a 1st century only phenomenon), would I be criptic about it?


This doesn't make any sense at'all, folks.

Were I in N. Korea (Heaven forbid) and God knew their plans about killing off as many of my brethren as possible, would he deliver it to me in 'signs and symbols' and then expect me to communicate it that way to everyone else, and hope they 'figured it out'?

No sense a'tall.


:cheer:

pm


"When you stand before God you cannot say, "But I was told by others to do 'thus', or that 'virtue wasn't convenient at the time'", this will not suffice" - King Baldwin IV, 1184 A.D.

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03-09-2007 01:00 PM
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donbodo
Tell me that again...


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Post: #30
RE: The Mark of the Beast

PropMin Wrote:
This was not 'open criticism' of a Roman Emperor. This is not what Rev 13 is about ("criticism").


But it has plenty of criticism in it.

Quote:
John wrote this on the Isle of Patmos and no printing presses existed in his day. They didn't mass produce media. If the message (of the Mark) was about an Emperor in Rome why wasn't it communicated verbally throughout the body of Christians?


Can't we say that about any of the Bible books? Come on now. These documents were copied and sent to all of the congregations.

Quote:
Were I in N. Korea (Heaven forbid) and God knew their plans about killing off as many of my brethren as possible, would he deliver it to me in 'signs and symbols' and then expect me to communicate it that way to everyone else, and hope they 'figured it out'?


We have a hard time figuring it out, because we weren't there. The Roman authorities would have had a hard time figuring it out too. But the early Christians would have had little problem at all. They were in the know.

Think about it, Prop. It doesn't matter what century you place Revelation's fulfillment. You can still make the same argument about it. If I believed it was for the 21st century, then I could still say,
"Hey, would he deliver it to me in 'signs and symbols' and then expect me to communicate it that way to everyone else, and hope they 'figured it out'?"


"Learn the rule: 'Do not go beyond the things that are written,' in order that you may not be puffed up individually in favor of the one against the other" (1 Cor. 4:6).
03-09-2007 03:36 PM
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