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The Mark of the Beast
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rus virgil
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Post: #46
RE: The Mark of the Beast

donbodo Wrote:
Dear Rus,
..........................................................................................
It was interesting that you claimed that we should allow the Bible to interpret itself, but you used current events to interpret it.


I didn't say that.
But all uf us are teached by Jesus in John 16:13   :

12."I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14. He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. 15. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you. "
  
So , Jesus is the One who reveals the secrets /at the proper time decided by the Father /, through the Spirit of truth . Jesus didn't say He will send "visions" but says the Spirit will lead/guide [b]you/His genuine followers/  in all truth [/b].

Now it remains upon you (the duty) of searching and perceiving if this understanding/light is come from our King (through the Spirit ) or not !
Everyone having spiritual sight may  perceive it .

04-18-2007 07:20 AM
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donbodo
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Post: #47
RE: The Mark of the Beast

But Rus, the fact of the matter is, every Christian claims to receive God's spirit, and yet there are so many interpretations. How do you explain this? One of two ways:

1) All Christians except the right ones are mistaken and do not really have the spirit.

2) The spirit guides Christians only to the important basic truths (on which most Christians agree) and not on the nitty gritty details.

The problem with the first choice is that everyone accuses everyone else that they are mistaken. There is no real way to determine who is right.

Since the early Christians did not all interpret scriptures the same way, I tend to believe #2.


"Learn the rule: 'Do not go beyond the things that are written,' in order that you may not be puffed up individually in favor of the one against the other" (1 Cor. 4:6).
04-18-2007 11:10 AM
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digging
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Post: #48
RE: The Mark of the Beast

Just a question, does anyone think Adam and Eve received the mark?

Digging

04-18-2007 02:30 PM
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ablebodiedman
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Post: #49
RE: The Mark of the Beast

rus virgil Wrote:

donbodo Wrote:
Dear Rus,
..........................................................................................
It was interesting that you claimed that we should allow the Bible to interpret itself, but you used current events to interpret it.


I didn't say that.
But all uf us are teached by Jesus in John 16:13   :

12."I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14. He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. 15. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you. "
  
So , Jesus is the One who reveals the secrets /at the proper time decided by the Father /, through the Spirit of truth . Jesus didn't say He will send "visions" but says the Spirit will lead/guide [b]you/His genuine followers/  in all truth [/b].

Now it remains upon you (the duty) of searching and perceiving if this understanding/light is come from our King (through the Spirit ) or not !
Everyone having spiritual sight may  perceive it .



Rus,

This scripture proves that a time will be here when people really do know what Jehovah is doing and why.

No interpretation required.

Isaiah 66
14 And YOU will certainly see, and YOUR heart will be bound to exult, and YOUR very bones will sprout just like tender grass. And the hand of Jehovah will certainly be made known to his servants, but he will actually denounce his enemies.”

If this is having a fulfillment on you then you have every right to exult.

ablebodiedman

04-19-2007 09:55 AM
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ablebodiedman
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Post: #50
RE: The Mark of the Beast

ablebodiedman Wrote:

warmthofthesun Wrote:
Hi Draka,

What I was trying to get across is that both marks symbolize something. They are not a material mark. God isn't worried about what we use to do our shopping. The beast mark is attained by following the kingdoms of the earth and sinful nature. The mark of the Father and the Son is attained by following them and not living to the fleshly nature -- living for his kingdom.

People are strongly deluded by waiting around for these marks to make an appearance on earth, when for the last 2000 years they have been a reality.  

This is why we see in Revelation 20 that those that do not accept the mark reign with Christ. Now it seems obvious then that the mark and the beast must stretch longer than some 3 year period or else none of the saints that have lived before would reign with Christ.

Andrew


wots,

I like your way of thinking about the mark.

Revelation reveals what has already been said in the bible through symbols.

A symbolic mark in the forehead can best be obtained by making a vow of loyalty to the wild beast. This vow provides veneration and worship to the wild beast. We should be very carefull about getting this mark. Did Jesus Christ say there was anything we should be carefull about in the gospels?

He said :

Satan would sow weeds inside of his Kingdom.
We should be carefull about being gathered together by false signs.
We should not eat and drink with drunkards.


If Satan was to sow weeds inside of God's true Kingdom and those weeds were successfull then the true Kingdom would become wild.

A wild beast.

If Satan was to overcome the true kingdom in such a way that worship would still continue would it be true worship or would the persons now be worshipping Satans wild beast?

How about if Satan could get the participants in this Kingdom to continue selling and others buying the false idea that they were engaging in proper worship when in fact they were not? Perhaps selling the idea door to door and buying more persons with it.

He would have removed the constant feature of worship and replaced it with something else.

That would be an unrighteous deception wouldn't it?

Perhaps Satan could get the entire Kingdom do disobey God without them even realizing it. If Satan was able to successfully do this then a righteous person would consider that perhaps these deceived persons might not be completely lucid, or ............. drunkards.

Could Satan have a more malicious motive for sowing weeds in among the wheat? The same motive he had in the Garden of Eden.

Satan has been able to get people to make a supposed baptismal vow to "God's Spirit Directed Organization".

If this disobeys Jesus Christ's commandment regarding baptism then the person now has a mark with the name of the wild beast.

So what is the name given in the vow?

"God's Spirit Directed Organization".

An organization usually requires commitees or groups of men in order to be organized.

So how is "God's Spirit Directed Organization" organized?

Certainly it is by numbers of men?

A man's number.

What is the number of men used to organize "God's Spirit Directed Organization"?

Anyone know the answer?


ablebodiedman



Looks like Rus Virgil has already answered this question in a post above.

I should be reading these things more carefully!


Here it is quoted:

Quote:
Rus Virgil: ....  So, let us see how we can find this number. At page 109 of the book “Jehovah's witnesses, proclaimers of God's Kingdom”, in the second paragraph the following appear: “Starting with 1 st January 1976 all the activities of the Watch Tower Society and of all the congregations of Jehovah's witnesses in the entire world have entered under the supervision of six administrative committees of the government corps. (And here we have the first six) Then, we read on: “In accordance with this measure, on 1 st February 1976 a similar modification took place in every branch of the society. (And this is the second six) Then, going down to the third step – the congregation we observe that there is a committee, which handles all the problems of the congregation. This committee is formed out of six members (and here is the third six) with the following functions and responsabilities: 1 – president; 2 – secretary; 3 – accountant; 4 – the supervisor of the minister school; 5 – the supervisor of the ministry service; 6 – the person who is in charge of the literature department. All these together represent the number 666.


The name of the wild beast: "God's spirit directed organization"

It's number is a man's number. The number of men used to organize "God's spirit directed organization".

The number of it's name:    666

WOW

Thanks Rus Virgil!

That is amazing !

Isaiah 66
14 And YOU will certainly see, and YOUR heart will be bound to exult, and YOUR very bones will sprout just like tender grass. And the hand of Jehovah will certainly be made known to his servants, but he will actually denounce his enemies.”


ablebodiedman

04-19-2007 10:06 AM
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ablebodiedman
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Post: #51
RE: The Mark of the Beast

So in review, the mark of the wild beast is obtained through a baptismal vow which, undermines Jesus Christ's own commandment regarding baptism.

The baptismal vows, which are necessary to become one of Jehovah's Witnesses, are carefully explained in the June 1st 1985 Watchtower Magazine on page 30 as follows:

"On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will"


The second is:

Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit directed organization?"

These vows are publicly made often in front of thousands of people!


Thats how you get the mark!


ablebodiedman

04-19-2007 10:12 AM
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ablebodiedman
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Post: #52
RE: The Mark of the Beast

You can read more about this baptismal mark here:


When you catch sight of the disgusting thing! <--- click


ablebodiedman

04-19-2007 10:26 AM
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rus virgil
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Post: #53
RE: The Mark of the Beast

[quote=ablebodiedman]

WOW

Thanks Rus Virgil!

........................................................................................

No thanks to human being ,

But   " Amen! Praise and glory and wisdom and thanks and honour and power and strength be to our God for ever and ever. Amen! "
                                                    Rev.7:12

04-21-2007 06:31 PM
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ablebodiedman
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Post: #54
RE: The Mark of the Beast

rus virgil Wrote:
[quote=ablebodiedman]

WOW

Thanks Rus Virgil!

........................................................................................

No thanks to human being ,

But   " Amen! Praise and glory and wisdom and thanks and honour and power and strength be to our God for ever and ever. Amen! "
                                                    Rev.7:12



Hello Rus,

You have provided plenty of evidence that; "the hand of Jehovah will certainly be made known to his servants".

Are you one of those who were "disfellowshipped" for having spoken the truth after you saw Satan's unrighteous deception?

Are you one of those who were thrown into the "waterless pit" by your own brothers, the evil slave and left for dead?

Are you one of the few left who is actually keeping the holy covenant instead of transgressing against it?

This is what Jehovah said he would do for those few who took a stand and were persecuted by their own brothers:

Zechariah 9
11 “Also, you, [O woman,] by the blood of your covenant I will send your prisoners out of the pit in which there is no water. 12 “Return to the stronghold, YOU prisoners of the hope. “Also, today [I am] telling [you], ‘I shall repay to you, [O woman,] a double portion. 13 For I will tread as my [bow] Judah. The bow I will fill with E´phra·im, and I will awaken your sons, O Zion, against your sons, O Greece, and I will make you as the sword of a mighty man.’ 14 And over them Jehovah himself will be seen, and his arrow will certainly go forth just like lightning. And on the horn the Sovereign Lord Jehovah himself will blow, and he will certainly go with the windstorms of the south. 15 Jehovah of armies himself will defend them, and they will actually devour and subdue the slingstones. And they will certainly drink—be boisterous—as if there were wine; and they will actually become filled like the bowl, like the corners of [the] altar.


Romans 9:26
26 and in the place where it was said to them, ‘YOU are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’”


May Jehovah be glorified!


Very soon those who are supposedly shepherding God's people and their rulers, who have been overcome by Satan and his weeds, the Governing Body will be held accountable for their transgressions against the holy covenant and Jesus Christ the King!

Zechariah 10
3 “Against the shepherds my anger has grown hot, and against the goatlike leaders I shall hold an accounting; for Jehovah of armies has turned his attention to his drove, the house of Judah, and has made them like his horse of dignity in the battle.


ablebodiedman

04-23-2007 10:19 AM
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donbodo
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Post: #55
RE: The Mark of the Beast

ablebodiedman Wrote:
This scripture proves that a time will be here when people really do know what Jehovah is doing and why.

No interpretation required.

Isaiah 66
14 And YOU will certainly see, and YOUR heart will be bound to exult, and YOUR very bones will sprout just like tender grass. And the hand of Jehovah will certainly be made known to his servants, but he will actually denounce his enemies.”


Christians in every generation throughout history since Jesus has believed that the scriptures were being fulfilled in their own day, believed that they knew exactly what Jehovah was doing and why, no interpretation required. Most of them were mistaken.

Biggest mistake Christians have made, and still make: thinking that the Bible's prophecies are ALL ABOUT THEM. Humans are quite self-important when it comes right down to it.


"Learn the rule: 'Do not go beyond the things that are written,' in order that you may not be puffed up individually in favor of the one against the other" (1 Cor. 4:6).
04-23-2007 12:16 PM
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ablebodiedman
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Post: #56
RE: The Mark of the Beast

donbodo Wrote:

ablebodiedman Wrote:
This scripture proves that a time will be here when people really do know what Jehovah is doing and why.

No interpretation required.

Isaiah 66
14 And YOU will certainly see, and YOUR heart will be bound to exult, and YOUR very bones will sprout just like tender grass. And the hand of Jehovah will certainly be made known to his servants, but he will actually denounce his enemies.”


Christians in every generation throughout history since Jesus has believed that the scriptures were being fulfilled in their own day, believed that they knew exactly what Jehovah was doing and why, no interpretation required. Most of them were mistaken.

Biggest mistake Christians have made, and still make: thinking that the Bible's prophecies are ALL ABOUT THEM. Humans are quite self-important when it comes right down to it.




Something different happening here though!

The importance is being directed to Jehovah and his son Jesus Christ.

John 16

13 However, when that one arrives, the spirit of the truth, he will guide YOU into all the truth, for he will not speak of his own impulse, but what things he hears he will speak, and he will declare to YOU the things coming. 14 That one will glorify me, because he will receive from what is mine and will declare it to YOU.


ablebodiedman

04-23-2007 12:31 PM
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donbodo
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Post: #57
RE: The Mark of the Beast

But ABM,

How does one tell if the spirit of truth is speaking to him? The problem is that, even today, lots of people are absolutely sure that the spirit has revealed something to them, and yet the testimony conflicts with information that other people say for sure the spirit gave them. And this has happened in every age.


"Learn the rule: 'Do not go beyond the things that are written,' in order that you may not be puffed up individually in favor of the one against the other" (1 Cor. 4:6).
04-23-2007 12:56 PM
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Interpretum
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Post: #58
RE: The Mark of the Beast

Hi ablebodiedman

Quote:
The name of the wild beast: "God's spirit directed organization"

It's number is a man's number. The number of men used to organize "God's spirit directed organization".

The number of it's name: 666


This is all very well, but it has virtually nothing to do with the Bible. What has been found is three references to the number six. The Bible says the number of the beast is something completely different:

"Let the one that has intelligence calculate the number of the wild beast, for it is a man’s number; and its number is six hundred and sixty-six." (Rev 13:18)

Please notice: 600, 60 and 6.

Chalk and cheese.

:detective:


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04-23-2007 01:24 PM
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ablebodiedman
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Post: #59
RE: The Mark of the Beast

donbodo Wrote:
But ABM,

How does one tell if the spirit of truth is speaking to him? The problem is that, even today, lots of people are absolutely sure that the spirit has revealed something to them, and yet the testimony conflicts with information that other people say for sure the spirit gave them. And this has happened in every age.



donbodo,

The scriptures show that it won't be a problem for the ones who the spirit of truth is speaking to:


Isaiah 66
14 And YOU will certainly see, and YOUR heart will be bound to exult, and YOUR very bones will sprout just like tender grass. And the hand of Jehovah will certainly be made known to his servants, but he will actually denounce his enemies.”

ablebodiedman

04-23-2007 02:09 PM
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ablebodiedman
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Post: #60
RE: The Mark of the Beast

Interpretum Wrote:
Hi ablebodiedman

Quote:
The name of the wild beast: "God's spirit directed organization"

It's number is a man's number. The number of men used to organize "God's spirit directed organization".

The number of it's name:    666


This is all very well, but it has virtually nothing to do with the Bible. What has been found is three references to the number six. The Bible says the number of the beast is something completely different:

"Let the one that has intelligence calculate the number of the wild beast, for it is a man’s number; and its number is six hundred and sixty-six." (Rev 13:18)

Please notice: 600, 60 and 6.

Chalk and cheese.

:detective:


Interpretum,

What you have said is all very well and so perhaps you could wait until a similar wild beast is identified with a name which has a man's number and compels people of all kinds to undermine Jesus Christ's own baptismal commandment  allowing the one bearing the baptismal mark to continue selling the deception and buying more people door to door. All this in order to receive veneration in a very unique and profound way at the same time gaining entry into the temple of The God lifting itself above the station of a god, perpetuating an incredibly amazing unrighteous deception amoungst millions of people all around the world and whose number is  600, 60 and 6 instead of 6,6,6.


ablebodiedman

04-23-2007 02:57 PM
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