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The Great Tribulation
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Interpretum
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Post: #46
RE: The Great Tribulation

Hi Susanna

I read the passages in Galatians. In fact, I recommend reading the WHOLE of Galatians, to get the full sense of Paul's argument.

Basically, some in Galatia were telling the brothers they needed to get circumcised. This is clear by the build up, in chapters 1 and 2. Paul finishes his argument in chapter 5, where he says:

"See! I, Paul, am telling you that if you become circumcised, Christ will be of no benefit to you." (Galatians 5:2)

Essentially he spent the prior chapters building up his argument, to make that point.

But anyway, I get Paul's points and his concept of "spiritual" Israel... but still, as Romans 9-11 shows, any so-called "spiritual Israel" is built on the remnant of physical Jews, with Gentiles grafted in to Israel, NOT replacing Israel.

Let me quote Paul directly, in part (I would like to quote all of Romans 9-11 but it's way too long):

"However, if some of the branches were broken off but you, although being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became a sharer of the olive’s root of fatness, do not be exulting over the branches. If, though, you are exulting over them, it is not you that bear the root, but the root [bears] you.. // ... For if you were cut out of the olive tree that is wild by nature and were grafted contrary to nature into the garden olive tree, how much rather will these who are natural be grafted into their own olive tree!" (Romans 11:17,18 24)

Please note Paul's language... WE, the Gentiles, do NOT bear the root (the Jews), but the root bears us!

Israel is their tree, and the Gentiles have been "grafted in". There is no replacement Israel, no "spiritual Israel"... it's the SAME Israel... but simply with many of the old branches (disobedient Jews) lopped off, and new branches grafted in (Gentiles).

To repeat: It is the same Israel.

Quote:
Those 12 tribes mention in Revelation are symbolic Of 12,000 being taken out of each tribe. These tribes are spiritual yet made up of humans from the earth, ( tribe, nation, and ,tongue) because they are in heaven. They are not the literal tribes of Israel, take notice of the names of the spiritual tribes.,


The thing is, I don't really see any proof here that they're not literal tribes. The tribal names are different, but tribal names are not consistent in each census in the Old Testament, because it depends on the purpose of the census.

For example, the tribe of Levi don't go to war, so they're not included in a census taken for war purposes. However, they're included in this Rev census because they're not going to war.

Actually, I do agree there is a symbolic nature to this passage... after all, I think we both agree that the number 12,000 is symbolic. But then, so must the TOTAL... 144,000!

It symbolizes a remnant, a small number of people. But they are NOT from "the earth" in general, but from "the tribes of Israel"... that's what it says.

It doesn't make logical sense to have spiritual Israel come out of spiritual Israel... it makes a lot more sense to have these ones come out of physical Israel... and the circumstances would fit the 1st century escape of the Jewish Christians from Judea in 66CE.

Remember, those who fled would have primarily been Jewish Christians!

OK... I can see we're probably going round in circles with each other, so let me ask you this question:

When Paul talks about a remnant turning up at the present season (Romans 11:5), what is he talking about?

To me, he's plainly talking about the Jews of his day who have accepted Christ.

If you were to read Romans chapter 9 through to 11, I think you would also come to this conclusion.

However, if you simply look at that passage in isolation (as the WTS teaches us to do), you'll come to a different conclusion.

I would urge you to see how Paul uses the word "remnant", and what he means by it.

Basically, Paul spends several chapters defending his fleshly brothers (the Jews), but admits by chapter 9, vs 27-29 that only a remnant are going to be saved because of an accounting.

Anyway, I am jumping ahead of myself... :blush: ... and your answer, so let me ask:

When Paul talks about a remnant turning up at the present season (Romans 11:5), what is he talking about?


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10-20-2009 10:59 PM
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Susanna
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Post: #47
RE: The Great Tribulation

Dear Interp
I was happy to see that you started your own thread on your
question, Your inquires really deserves a thread of its own.( seriously )
You have some great questions but

I can see where we would not be on the same page , so that saves me from researching thoughts that aren't in agreement with your thoughts.,.
Like you said we were just going in circles.
So dear friends that are following bro Interps Inquiry,please go to the thread

Pauls" Remnant," Who are they?

love susanna


Jehovah and one is a large army
10-21-2009 11:24 PM
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Susanna
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Post: #48
RE: The Great Tribulation

Hi all

Matt 24:1-3 reads
And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be?

and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world.

There are three questions here.

:
When the Apostles asked when the Temple would be torn down, Jesus gave them the signs as to what would take place leading up to that destruction.

It was after telling them about Jerusalem, Jesus went into the signs that would indicate his coming and the conclusion of this (global system of things.))


Christ started to gather his Bride in the first century , those who were going to rule with him in his Kingdom.
The Messianic Kingdom which is made up of 144,000 and one. ( Jesus Christ )

The Bride of Christ , or the Holy or Chosen ones are those that make up the Israel of God which is heavenly Jerusalem..

While on earth
Jesus was personally with his future co rulers , but after his death his word was still the same to the future ones that would respond to the higher calling down to this day.
The 144,000 are his church, this is the Temple of God , This is Gods Household of adopted sons.

After Jesus resurrection Jesus appeared to his disciples
Matt 28:16-20 reads
16Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
17And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.

>>>>>>>

Now we know Jesus wasn't going to be with Those that he was speaking to ) until the end of the world, nor was it the time to preach to all the nations, but he was speaking to his bride brothers (144,000 ) as a whole.

Paul was doing the same thing He was speaking to the brothers back in the first century, but also to the rest of the body of Christ., down with us today.

That's why he said should they ( 144,000) hear that the Lord was coming for them, not to think it came from them ( the first century brothers ) but he was telling those body bride members of Christ in our day not to believe this announcement that Christ was coming for them , because the apostasy had to come first and be revealed.

2 Thess 2:1-3 reads

1Now concerning( the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our( being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers,[ 2not to be quickly shaken in mind or( alarmed, either( by a spirit or a( spoken word, or( a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, ) unless the rebellion comes first, and( the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, ""

>>>>>>>>>>

>Well the apostasy has been uncovered . Christ never did come but Christ is now free to come as promised.

The first fulfillment of Matt 24: was the Jewish system being destroyed,

way back in Ezekiel's day Jehovah already allowed Satan to take over the whole world he put low what was high,

( He removed His crown from kings representing Him on earth and said He would give it to the one who had a legal right to it. which would be the promised seed Jesus Christ.

Ezk 21:26-27 reads


“ Remove the turban, and take off the crown;
Nothing shall remain the same.
Exalt the humble, and humble the exalted.
27 Overthrown, overthrown,
I will make it overthrown!
It shall be no longer,
Until He comes whose right it is,
And I will give it to Him.”’



the major fulfillment of Matt 24: for this world system of things is found in

Rev 11:18 .reads

18 The nations were filled with wrath,
but now the time of your wrath has come.
It is time to judge the dead
and reward your servants the prophets,
as well as your holy people,
and all who fear your name,
from the least to the greatest.
It is time to destroy
all who have caused destruction on the earth.”

Ps 2:1-2

1Why are )the nations in an uproar
And the peoples devising a vain thing?
2The )kings of the earth take their stand
And the rulers take counsel together
Against the LORD and against His [ Anointed,

>>>>>>

Those on the watch can see how a stand is already being taken against Christians Be on guard..


Jehovah and one is a large army
10-30-2009 02:34 AM
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Lowlee
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Post: #49
RE: The Great Tribulation

Susanna Wrote:
2 Thess 2:1-3 reads

1Now concerning( the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our( being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers,[ 2not to be quickly shaken in mind or( alarmed, either( by a spirit or a( spoken word, or( a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, ) unless the rebellion comes first, and( the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, ""

Well the apostasy has been uncovered.


Hiya Suzzie, :cheekkiss: So what is the apostasy? There's lots of stuff to look at, what do you say it is? :hug: Sister LOWlee


"My sheep hear my voice and I know them, and they follow me." John 10:27
10-30-2009 01:01 PM
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Susanna
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Post: #50
RE: The Great Tribulation

Lowlee Wrote:

Susanna Wrote:
2 Thess 2:1-3 reads

1Now concerning( the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our( being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers,[ 2not to be quickly shaken in mind or( alarmed, either( by a spirit or a( spoken word, or( a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, ) unless the rebellion comes first, and( the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, ""

Well the apostasy has been uncovered.


Hiya Suzzie, :cheekkiss: So what is the apostasy? There's lots of stuff to look at, what do you say it is? :hug: Sister LOWlee


Dear Lowlee

Now lets think and reason.on the above Just what is Paul telling his brothers in those three scriptures.?
Write it down .
Now what is the first scripture saying ?


Paul is warning the brothers ?
what is he warning them against ? why is he concerned ?

Was there reason for Paul to be concerned ?
Why ?
The big question is, was there reason for Paul's concern !
Lowlee your answers are all there.

Don't just scan those scriptures lowlee, study them..:cheekkiss:

Lets do it this way, pretend you have to write a small essay on those three scriptures and the scriptures there are just a outline of what your to write about. We are living in the time when those scriptures have application for our time. What are they telling us. :grouphug:


Jehovah and one is a large army
10-30-2009 02:25 PM
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Susanna
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Post: #51
RE: The Great Tribulation

Hi all
just sharing, the latest on this volcano in Iceland.
Could this be a repeat !!! The start of a revolution ?
it certainly is going to play havoc on the airlines not to mention the hike in gasoline ,a domino effect can be seen coming from this natural phenomenon .
.
I believe we are well on the way.
Just my thoughts. surprisingly I am not alone , many in the world sense a complete fall of a empire, the stage is being set.

News from past History I hope this works .

link :(Must google this whole sentence.)

How a past Icelandic volcano helped spark the French Revolution

Posted by Xeno on April 19, 2010

The presence of sulphur dioxide is already obvious to local residents, though there don't appear to be any concerns over its toxicity. This is the toxicity information given by gasdetection.com:

WITH ACUTE EXPOSURE, 5 PPM CAUSES DRYNESS OF NOSE & THROAT AND A MEASUREABLE INCR IN RESISTANCE TO BRONCHIAL AIR FLOW; 6 TO 8 PPM CAUSES A DECR IN TIDAL RESP VOLUME. SNEEZING, COUGH & EYE IRRITATION OCCUR AT 10 PPM; 20 PPM CAUSED BRONCHOSPASM; 50 PPM CAUSES EXTREME DISCOMFORT BUT NO INJURY IN LESS THAN A 30-MIN EXPOSURE ... 1000 PPM CAUSES DEATH IN FROM 10 MIN TO SEVERAL HR BY RESP DEPRESSION.


Jehovah and one is a large army
04-19-2010 04:40 PM
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llee
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Post: #52
RE: The Great Tribulation

Good morning dear sis:

Praise Jah and Jesus we people!!!

So sorry this is a little late :redface: pleeze forgive me, and very happy to see you posting again!:giverose:

How an Icelandic Volcano helped spark the French Revolution:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr...revolution

Much Christian Love and Endurance to You, your family and ALL:grouphug::heartbeat:
sis


Psalms 68:11 "Jehovah himself gives the saying;
The women telling the good news are a large army."

"Every civilization learns what it needs to know, and the next one forgets it." Gil Grissom CSI


04-20-2010 12:06 PM
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Susanna
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Post: #53
RE: The Great Tribulation

Been watching this oil spill

The earth doesn't ever get any new water, what we have is recycled over and over,from the very beginning ,same waters that were used for the flood in Noah's day. so you can see what's going to happen.
What drinking water we have now is already treated with chemicals ,then we have the volcano's and the oil fires .

Some so called drinking water is not even fit to drink, its been known pharmaceutical drugs such as Prozac , birth control pills , etc.. have even slipped thru the purification, systems . Two of our essentials for life , is water and oxygen. Man has really ruined the earth.
Rev 11:18


As I see these outstanding events ( which doesn't mean a thing )
This is what I see.
Revelation 6:2 (Amplified Bible)
And I looked, and saw there a white horse whose rider carried a bow. And a crown was given him, and he rode forth conquering and to conquer. Rev 13:7

>>>>>>
What I think is taken place is a setting up for the government ,to own everything pushing all to a one world Government. This is the plan for Satans Kingdom here on earth.

Jahs wrath does not come until his adopted sons , Christ brothers or the remaining ones that make up Christ bride finish their 3.5 ministry and are put to death.

Revelation 6:9-11 (Amplified Bible)reads
When the Lamb broke open the fifth seal, I saw at the foot of the altar the souls of those whose lives had been sacrificed for [adhering to] the Word of God and for the testimony they had borne.

10 They cried in a loud voice, O [Sovereign] Lord, holy and true, how long now before You will sit in judgment and avenge our blood upon those who dwell on the earth?

11 Then they were each given a [a]long and flowing and festive white robe and told to rest and wait patiently a little while longer, until the number should be complete of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

>>>>>>>>

The four horses ( with Satan taking the lead to conquer ) are developing and arranging events for Satan's Kingdom to take hold. Its in the making now .

After it is established, the remaining bride will complete what Jesus had started in the first century,Their ministry will also be 3.5 years.
Declaring the birth of the Messeanic Kingdom.
It is their death that brings on Jehovah's wrath or Armegedden,

Satan's conquest will be finished.

Speaking only for myself


Jehovah and one is a large army
05-01-2010 08:20 PM
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Susanna
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Post: #54
RE: The Great Tribulation

Hi all that are up this early, I have some thoughts to share
This oil spill, no doubt have men feeling faint out of fear, as they, are in a position where not only small creatures are at loss, but all creation is groaning.

I have heard some say already they don't want to hear or talk about this spill, but we certainly don't want to be like the ones ,that Jesus was referring to during Noahs time, Do we ?

Now if ever is the time to bring out to any one that mentions this spill , that all that we are witnessing is proof that Jesus is to return. Now isn't that easy, to open up a conversation that would become positive, of course it is. We soon will enter the time period mentioned in Rev 11 :18
Give our neighbors a hope, let them rejoice along with us.
There's always a storm before the calm.

Oil or as the WT printed out in 1958 is going to be a big part in the last days, all out of greed of course. It was referred to Black Gold .found in " Your Will Be Done On Earth," Green book, that was one thing that got in there for us faithful ones. Jehovah seen to that !
There was some good wheat still there then and no doubt after their death the book was swept under a rug and replaced with another book on Daniel that eliminated all the findings on oil/
Never the less OIL was to be a major feature for the last days/

How ironic that it may also turn out to be one of the worse plagues to hit the earth.
I am certainly not a rocket scientist but I can name a few things that this spill can spark off.
One is from what I understand oil is lighter then water so i hear/
These are just my thoughts and certainly all are invited to share their thoughts of possibilities.
But I was thinking ( I do that at times, :thinking: ) I was thinking with the sun hitting the oil now that were going into the warmer season, wouldn't that sort of microwave the water, making it warmer then usual, isn't that what set off Katrina,
Right before Katrina hit land the water jumped to a # 5 ( that's the highest ) meaning the waters got hot, Well keep in mind the hurricane season starts June first.

So expect almost anything. Most important keep close to Jehovah, and as Jesus said, stay awake and keep on the watch. Share what we have with others stick to the Good news of what the Messianic Kingdom is going to do for mankind, that kingdom is Mankind's only hope.

love susanna:grouphug:


Jehovah and one is a large army
05-27-2010 07:05 AM
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Susanna
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Post: #55
RE: The Great Tribulation

Hi again
Heres a link that is visual. A sister stopped by yesterday and explained just how this oil will get into clean waters. I thought it was very interesting and wanted to share.
I hope this link works as I am no good at getting them onto posts.:grouphug:


http://kingfish.coastal.edu/gulfstream/p2.htm

Thank you lee for the help with this link.


Jehovah and one is a large army
05-29-2010 07:25 PM
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llee
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Post: #56
RE: The Great Tribulation

Susanna Wrote:
Hi again
Heres a link that is visual. A sister stopped by yesterday and explained just how this oil will get into clean waters. I thought it was very interesting and wanted to share.
I hope this link works as I am no good at getting them onto posts.:grouphug:


http://kingfish.coastal.edu/gulfstream/p2.htm

Thank you lee for the help with this link.


HI DEAR SIS::giverose:

PRAISE JAH AND JESUS WE PEOPLE:cheer::cheer::cheer:
LOVE YOU MUCHLY:cheekkiss::heartbeat:
SIS


Psalms 68:11 "Jehovah himself gives the saying;
The women telling the good news are a large army."

"Every civilization learns what it needs to know, and the next one forgets it." Gil Grissom CSI


05-29-2010 08:13 PM
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Elizabeth
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Post: #57
RE: The Great Tribulation

Susanna Wrote:
Hi once more
All you brothers are doing what you should be doing and that is drawing close to Jesus . I admire the stand you have all taken, and I'm sure Jehovah is pleased.
I sincerely apologize I failed to take into consideration that many are just getting over the falsehood that they had already accepted as truth ,and your to be commended ,for the stand your taking for the word of God,
I do see many are not ready for what the scriptures are presenting for the end times.

Statement made
"his kingdom" ? what has "his Kingdom" to do with the NWO , or other operations of the darkness ?
>>>>
Every thing in the world that's what.!!
We are going to have two kingdoms in opposition to one another. Rev 12:7-9

7A war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels were fighting against the dragon and its angels. 8But the dragon lost the battle. It and its angels were forced out of their places in heaven 9and were thrown down to the earth. Yes, that old snake and his angels were thrown out of heaven! That snake, who fools everyone on earth, is known as the devil and Satan

The kingdom ( new order ) I call it new for the simple reason, no religion will be tolerated, the religion that will be accepted will be " a one for all."that will be set up by rules.
with Christ out of the picture. there will be a movement of interfaith where "all are one", some thing that we as Christians cannot get involved with.

This earthly kingdom is where heavy persecution will take place against all Christians, but most don't understand this, so there really is no sense in my adding more to what cant be seen.

But so not be in the dark this is where we will find ourselves , weather it be brothers or children of Christ. There's no escaping it.

John 17:15-21 (CEV) reads
15Father, I don't ask you to take my followers out of the world, but keep them safe from the evil one. 16They don't belong to this world, and neither do I. 17Your word is the truth. So let this truth make them completely yours. 18I am sending them into the world, just as you sent me. 19I have given myself completely for their sake, so that they may belong completely to the truth.

20I am not praying just for these followers. I am also praying for everyone else who will have faith because of what my followers will say about me. 21I want all of them to be one with each other, just as I am one with you and you are one with me. I also want them to be one with us. Then the people of this world will believe that you sent me.

>>>>>>

So what we have here is the counterfeit kingdom on earth making " all one " in opposition with those that are in and will be covered by the heavenly Kingdom covenant.

In time you will all see this

i am sure many already do/

love susanna/:grouphug:


Hello Susanna,
I just wanted to say, that what you have clearly stated about the tribulation and the NWO, is of great importance.
As we tend to forget that many Christian's will be deceived at this time, even perhaps the chosen ones, and why would this be?
And that's because they didnt really keep on the watch, Jesus spoke about the man of lawlessness being in operation back then, how much more must his tactics have strengthened to support his purpose.
The world council of churches has the monopoly over every trinitarian religion, and is working with support from the UN. Christianity as we know it especially when at their ecumenical gatherings has become a melting pot of a mixture of Aboriginal, Buddhist and New Age spirituality, which has been deliberately allowed to infiltrate the pure worship of Jesus Christ.
A vast percentage of these worshipers havnt a clue, they just see it as love toward all. That's why the scriptures say, "many will say to me in that day, didnt we expel demons and do wondrous works in your name, and Jesus will say get away from me you workers of lawlessness" these were the ones who read their bibles, listened to their pastors and elders, but forgot to take heed of the signs that Jesus gave them, "make sure that NO MAN deceive you"
The signs that Jesus gave u is for our protection, like when he spoke about fleeing before the temple in Jerusalem would be destroyed. Why did some escape while others didnt? its because they listened to Jesus words to keep on the watch and take heed of the times we are living in, so that we do not succumb to the delusion.

Great post by the way:thumbup:

Blessings
Lizzy

05-29-2010 10:13 PM
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dontknow4sure
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Post: #58
RE: The Great Tribulation/OIL SPILL

I remember reading somewhere in Revelations that the seas will turn red & the living creatures in the sea will die

that oil looks red to me & living creatures in & around the spill are dying...

06-08-2010 11:43 PM
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Susanna
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Post: #59
RE: The Great Tribulation

Dea Bro ,thank you for your post and welcome .:thumbsup:

Some Say BP's Oil Spill Heralds the Apocalypse - Newsweek

Thats a link above:dontknow:
I really dont know how to put those links on.


Well any way your not alone in your thoughts,
but , Rev 11 th chapter shows that Jehovah Gods Anger has NOT turned to the earth yet/ nor would He ruin his own creation.
I am sure chemicals being pours out on the oil and the sun .may give the waters a red shade


So what is taken place at the present is the Apocalypse, but the thing is the one taking the lead on that first white horse to conquer is Satan the Devil. All this distructing is following him.
Christ Jesus has already recieved his crown for conquering the world.

Love susanna:grouphug:


Jehovah and one is a large army
06-09-2010 12:03 PM
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Totaldismay
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Post: #60
RE: The Great Tribulation

just a thought,

The red algae could come and make waters seem red.

I know it messes up fishing.
seems like it might feed on the earl, don't know 4 sure

06-09-2010 12:30 PM
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