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The Only Promise of Heavenly Life
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Disciple of Newness


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Post: #31
RE: The Only Promise of Heavenly Life

Prodigal Son Wrote:

New Heart Wrote:
Those who are in Christ's Spirit are living in the Spirit World while still in a fleshly body. This is the only way they can see God's Kingdom surrounding them and within them. The Kingdom of God is within us...when the daystar has risen in your hearts.


AMEN!!

I think Christians, and especially JW's, have been conditioned to believe that ANY kind of "direct contact" with the spirit world is something Satanic, demonic, taboo, etc. So while they claim they are "spiritual", their "spiritual" senses have been deadened, turned off. They are afraid of their spiritual potential or ability. However, all these people in the Bible showed that "spiritism" could be used for Divine purposes, like Moses (who studied the magical arts with the Egyptians), the Prophets (like Daniel who studied similar arts with the Babylonians, including dream interpretation), or the Apostles, who also had "direct contact" when they spoke or wrote under "inspiration". Notice that Daniel, while having the same knowledge of dreams as all of Nebuchadnezzar's henchmen, could interpret the King's dreams because of RIGHTEOUS MOTIVES.

So if Satan is allowed to have direct contact with his people, while God or his angels are not allowed that same gift with God's people, that would be a very unfair advantage for the bad guys.

While it is true that Satan may pose as an angel of light, he quickly exposes himself when he suggests or makes subtle implications of love or service of self rather than love or service of others. God wants to give, not take, and godly people emulate God. If you notice, when we are tempted, the desire, the "voice" to do bad comes from within. We cannot blame anyone outside of ourselves. And when I say "self" I don't mean not loving oneself, but I refer to egotistical selfishness in a narcissistic way, like the Pharisees exhibited while they were putting on a showy display of what seemed to be asceticism and altruism, but they were looking for glorification of themselves rather than doing good deeds in secret that would be for the benefit of humanity.

It's hard to understand until you learn this for yourself through life experience, how the mechanics of the universe work that God put in place. Motive means everything, and the only motive that gets a positive response is UNCONDITIONAL LOVE!

Peace,
Jimmy C.


Nice thoughts Jimmy! :friends:


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Henry Ward Beecher-1872 Preacher of Plymouth Church, Brooklyn, in his home later bought by C.H. Russell.
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02-24-2010 08:41 PM
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e-magine
Disciple of Newness


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Post: #32
RE: The Only Promise of Heavenly Life

Scattered sheep Wrote:
There is no such thing as a "true Christian" who is not an "anointed Christian" (a term the Watchtower Society uses but is found nowhere in scripture) and it is abundantly clear from the descriptions in Revelation of the "great crowd" that they are in a sanctified, holy state before God and must therefore be in the new covenant!

Thank you very much!!



More truer words have never been written!


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He is looking at the Brooklyn Bridge,,,, is it the way into, or, out of Brooklyn for you?
02-24-2010 08:46 PM
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Melancholymuse
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Post: #33
RE: The Only Promise of Heavenly Life

ablebodiedman Wrote:
Melancholymuse,
If you visit youtube there are many very interesting video's containing evidence of UFO's and crop circles.
I personally do not believe they are all hoaxes.
So yes, The spirit world is already roaming around on the earth right now.
Right in front of our faces.
I think a lot of people are keeping their eyes wide shut to this.
Eventually, I think it will reach a point of undeniability.
When it reaches the point of undeniability, posts like this one will no longer be sent to the controversy section.

In Christ

abe


I'm tethered to "dial up" service (our budget doesn't allow for high speed), so I don't have easy access to YouTube anymore. HOWEVER, I do agree that the UFO's and crop circles stuff is spirit originated -- and I tend to believe that it's the demonic spirits that stage those events. Think about it: These are great distractions that knock people off track from more godly things, dontcha think?


Zeal for your house will consume me -- John 2:17 (HCSB)
02-25-2010 12:01 AM
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gogh
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Post: #34
RE: The Only Promise of Heavenly Life

Hi Prodigal Son

Would you please clarify your statement: "However, all these people in the Bible showed that "spiritism" could be used for Divine purposes,"

definition of spiritism:


(a) The belief that the dead communicate with the living; spiritualism.


(b) The practices or doctrines of those holding such belief.

Scripture warns of spiritism, correct?

Galatians 5:20...

(ASV) "...idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousies, wraths, factions, divisions, parties,"

(ISV) "...idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, rivalry, jealously, outbursts of anger, quarrels, conflicts, factions,"

:coffeeread:

gogh


"......."This is my Son, whom I have chosen. Keep listening to him!" Luke 9:35
02-25-2010 04:21 PM
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smoldering wick
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Post: #35
RE: The Only Promise of Heavenly Life

Prodigal Son Wrote:
However, all these people in the Bible showed that "spiritism" could be used for Divine purposes, like Moses (who studied the magical arts with the Egyptians), the Prophets (like Daniel who studied similar arts with the Babylonians, including dream interpretation)

Oh? I had no idea that Moses and Daniel were so steeped in spiritism. Where does it say that in scripture? Or is this just another assumptive interpretation by Gnostics?:dontknow:


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02-25-2010 04:35 PM
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Willa
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Post: #36
RE: The Only Promise of Heavenly Life

Hey there Prodigal Son - I agree with some of your post - but wonder about the underlined in the following:

Quote:
I think Christians, and especially JW's, have been conditioned to believe that ANY kind of "direct contact" with the spirit world is something Satanic, demonic, taboo, etc. So while they claim they are "spiritual", their "spiritual" senses have been deadened, turned off. They are afraid of their spiritual potential or ability. [if we, as Christians, as supposed to be led by God's and Christ's spirits - that's supposed to be a real connection with our heavenly Father and His Son in an exchange of love. We were taught WT fear - proper, arms-length respect, appropriately expressed affection and unmerciful judgmentalism. However, there is some weird stuff going on in the name of 'spirituality' that we should be aware of - in order to avoid] However, all these people in the Bible showed that "spiritism" could be used for Divine purposes, like Moses (who studied the magical arts with the Egyptians), the Prophets (like Daniel who studied similar arts with the Babylonians, including dream interpretation), or the Apostles, who also had "direct contact" when they spoke or wrote under "inspiration". Notice that Daniel, while having the same knowledge of dreams as all of Nebuchadnezzar's henchmen, could interpret the King's dreams because of RIGHTEOUS MOTIVES.

Their abilities are attributed to God alone, are they not? No matter where they were living they worshipped the living one true God. So... not sure about the choice of words - maybe you are mixing 'spirituality' and 'spiritism'?

In Daniel's case, he was in charge of the heads of different 'religions' - "chief of the magicians"[5:11] - but by vs.18 through ch.6 it's plain who Daniel's God is.

Moses went head-to-head with Egyptian magicians, by his God's power, to prove he served the only true God.

Did they give glory to another - something I'm missing? I've even heard it claimed that Jesus was a magician! And that's not even an original thought, is it? [Mark 3] I'm not buyin' it!

??? :peace:


:heartbeat: You are my friends! I don't think it just by chance, but by God's Grand Design, that He has guided both our steps... to let your paths cross mine. :heartbeat:
02-25-2010 10:05 PM
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Willa
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Post: #37
RE: The Only Promise of Heavenly Life

Scattered sheep Wrote:

Quote:
"The point that I was actually making, was the separation between the terms of the "New Covenant" and Jesus' promise of a kingdom. The JW view is that both promises apply to their "anointed," so only they are under the New Covenant, and only they will go to heaven... a major misleading of the sheep."


I took this to be the point you were making in your article and I AGREE 100%.

You have made a very insightful point regarding Jeremiah 31 on a matter of huge importance for all Jehovah's Witnesses. I believe that convincing 99.9% of JW's that they are not in the new covenant and should not partake of the emblems is a very serious doctrinal error perpetuated by the Governing Body and it's colleagues for which they are grossly accountable to Christ for.

It does not matter one jot whether your hope is to be one of the righteous ones in the "new heavens" or the "new earth", you are definitely an "anointed" Christian if you have really put your faith in Jesus Christ for your salvation and believe that his shed blood forgives your sins. If that is your sincere hope, regardless of whether you wish to live forever in heaven or earth, and if in your heart and in prayer you cry "Abba, Father" (as all sincere Jehovah's Witnesses do!), you have received the holy spirit, you should take the emblems, and you are an anointed Christian who is in the new covenant. You are an heir of the promises and have the prospect and hope of entering into the Kingdom, whether it is the heavenly or earthly domain of that Kingdom (the Kingdom is not limited to a heavenly government, as the Watchtower erroneously teaches). There is no such thing as a "true Christian" who is not an "anointed Christian" (a term the Watchtower Society uses but is found nowhere in scripture) and it is abundantly clear from the descriptions in Revelation of the "great crowd" that they are in a sanctified, holy state before God and must therefore be in the new covenant!

Thank you very much!!


This is so worthy of repeating - thank YOU, brother! It made me cry... happy and sad... The only other thing I can say is, "Yes, YES!" :cheer:

:peace:


:heartbeat: You are my friends! I don't think it just by chance, but by God's Grand Design, that He has guided both our steps... to let your paths cross mine. :heartbeat:
02-25-2010 11:57 PM
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Prodigal Son
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Post: #38
RE: The Only Promise of Heavenly Life

Willa Wrote:
Their abilities are attributed to God alone, are they not? No matter where they were living they worshipped the living one true God. So... not sure about the choice of words - maybe you are mixing 'spirituality' and 'spiritism'?


Hi Willa,

I put the word "spiritism" in quotation marks to make a point. I think the Watchtower has demonized some words to keep their people from meditating and getting to know God personally. According to Wikipedia, "spiritism" does not necessarily mean consulting with dead people. It says:

The fundamental principles of Spiritism....are: (i) A belief in the existence of spirits - non-physical beings that live in the invisible or spirit world - and (ii) the possibility of communication between these spirits and living people through mediumship.

Pardon me for making those statements about Moses and Daniel without elaborating. I have studied the history of the Egyptians and Babylonians extensively, and don't take my word for this but research it yourself. Moses was raised as an adopted son of the Pharoah because of Nephritiri. As a result, he held a very high position in the Egyptian Kingdom before he took the commission he was given from God. According to the experts in the history of this culture, scholars of ancient civilizations, it is assured that Moses was trained as an "initiate" in the Egyptian "mysteries". But since the Bible cannot admit such a thing, then we are left with the idea that Aaron's snake devoured the other snakes completely by Jehovah's power alone, while these men had absolutely no idea how they were doing it.

It is the same situation with Daniel. Only the "elite" Jews were taken into exile by the Babylonians, and the rest killed off, because they had designs to initiate them in their mysteries due to their intelligence. That is the only reason their lives were spared. Daniel could not have held such a position in their Kingdom without this training. It would be like someone today being given a position requiring a Master's Degree without any formal education at all. Just not feasible!

But of course, you go ahead and believe whatever you wish!

I apologize for bringing this up, and I won't get into any confrontations about it.

Peace,
Jimmy C.


"Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God?" ~1 Corinthians 6:19
02-26-2010 11:11 AM
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Resolute
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Post: #39
RE: The Only Promise of Heavenly Life

Willa Wrote:
Their abilities are attributed to God alone, are they not? No matter where they were living they worshipped the living one true God. So... not sure about the choice of words - maybe you are mixing 'spirituality' and 'spiritism'?


Prodigal Son Wrote:
Hi Willa,

I put the word "spiritism" in quotation marks to make a point. I think the Watchtower has demonized some words to keep their people from meditating and getting to know God personally. According to Wikipedia, "spiritism" does not necessarily mean consulting with dead people. It says:

The fundamental principles of Spiritism....are: (i) A belief in the existence of spirits - non-physical beings that live in the invisible or spirit world - and (ii) the possibility of communication between these spirits and living people through mediumship.


So, Prodigal, the WT is to blame...or is it the Bible that you blame....I'm not sure. I guess if one doesn't fit you can handily use the other.:huh:

Well, let's start with the bible. Here's what it says on the subject through Moses' mouth as he delivered God's commands to the new nation of Israel:

“When you are entered into the land that Jehovah your God is giving you, you must not learn to do according to the detestable things of those nations. There should not be found in you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, anyone who employs divination, a practicer of magic or anyone who looks for omens or a sorcerer, or one who binds others with a spell or anyone who consults a spirit medium or a professional foreteller of events or anyone who inquires of the dead. For everybody doing these things is something detestable to Jehovah, and on account of these detestable things Jehovah your God is driving them away from before you. You should prove yourself faultless with Jehovah your God. “For these nations whom you are dispossessing used to listen to those practicing magic and to those who divine; but as for you, Jehovah your God has not given you anything like this." -- Deuteronomy 18:9-14


Quote:
Pardon me for making those statements about Moses and Daniel without elaborating. I have studied the history of the Egyptians and Babylonians extensively, and don't take my word for this but research it yourself. Moses was raised as an adopted son of the Pharoah because of Nephritiri. As a result, he held a very high position in the Egyptian Kingdom before he took the commission he was given from God. According to the experts in the history of this culture, scholars of ancient civilizations, it is assured that Moses was trained as an "initiate" in the Egyptian "mysteries". But since the Bible cannot admit such a thing, then we are left with the idea that Aaron's snake devoured the other snakes completely by Jehovah's power alone, while these men had absolutely no idea how they were doing it.


It sounds to me like all your studies have robbed you of faith in the incredible power of God so that you must find another explanation for the miraculous works of Yahweh in Egypt and beyond.

Quote:
It is the same situation with Daniel. Only the "elite" Jews were taken into exile by the Babylonians, and the rest killed off, because they had designs to initiate them in their mysteries due to their intelligence. That is the only reason their lives were spared. Daniel could not have held such a position in their Kingdom without this training. It would be like someone today being given a position requiring a Master's Degree without any formal education at all. Just not feasible!


...says you...:whistle:

Quote:
But of course, you go ahead and believe whatever you wish!


Looks like you already do.:thinking:

Quote:
I apologize for bringing this up, and I won't get into any confrontations about it.

Peace,
Jimmy C.


Thanks, apology accepted. But you will be confronted if you bring it up again. That's what we do.:P

:peace: Rez


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02-26-2010 01:25 PM
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smoldering wick
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Post: #40
RE: The Only Promise of Heavenly Life

And I saw three loathsome spirits like frogs, [leaping] from the mouth of the dragon and from the mouth of the beast and from the mouth of the false prophet. For really they are the spirits of demons that perform signs (wonders, miracles). And they go forth to the rulers and leaders all over the world, to gather them together for war on the great day of God the Almighty. (Revelation 16:13-14 --Amplified Bible)


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02-26-2010 01:44 PM
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Resolute
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Post: #41
RE: The Only Promise of Heavenly Life

Scattered Sheep wrote:

Quote:
It does not matter one jot whether your hope is to be one of the righteous ones in the "new heavens" or the "new earth", you are definitely an "anointed" Christian if you have really put your faith in Jesus Christ for your salvation and believe that his shed blood forgives your sins. If that is your sincere hope, regardless of whether you wish to live forever in heaven or earth, and if in your heart and in prayer you cry "Abba, Father" (as all sincere Jehovah's Witnesses do!), you have received the holy spirit, you should take the emblems, and you are an anointed Christian who is in the new covenant. You are an heir of the promises and have the prospect and hope of entering into the Kingdom, whether it is the heavenly or earthly domain of that Kingdom (the Kingdom is not limited to a heavenly government, as the Watchtower erroneously teaches). There is no such thing as a "true Christian" who is not an "anointed Christian" (a term the Watchtower Society uses but is found nowhere in scripture) and it is abundantly clear from the descriptions in Revelation of the "great crowd" that they are in a sanctified, holy state before God and must therefore be in the new covenant!

Thank you very much!!


Thank YOU, Scattered Sheep!:thumbsup: Couldn't add anything to that.

love,
Rez:siskiss:


When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one… – Edmund Burke
02-26-2010 02:29 PM
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e-magine
Disciple of Newness


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Post: #42
RE: The Only Promise of Heavenly Life

[admin. team note: off-topic quotation removed as unnecessary and borderline -- Kindly respect the intended focus of this thread emagine.]

Hi Jimmy! I knew exactly where you were coming from. No explanations necessary for me. Sometimes our meanings get misconstrued. :thumbup:


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02-27-2010 11:16 AM
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Scattered sheep
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Post: #43
RE: The Only Promise of Heavenly Life

I think this thread is getting off topic with the recent spiritism posts. Please stick to the main subject and start a new thread if you want to discuss something only remotely related. This is an important subject and shouldn't be hijacked please.

[Admin. note: We agree with you SS. Any future quoting from off-topic materiel of this nature will be removed.]


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02-27-2010 11:08 PM
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man hu
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Post: #44
RE: The Only Promise of Heavenly Life

JWHVACR Wrote:
The point that I was actually making, was the separation between the terms of the "New Covenant" and Jesus' promise of a kingdom. The JW view is that both promises apply to their "anointed," so only they are under the New Covenant, and only they will go to heaven... a major misleading of the sheep.


What the WT has done is translate two different Greek words into one English word.
This enables them to fudge the issue.

The first word is diatheke and is a covenant.
The second word is diatithemai and is a promise.

http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/s...hp?tid=983

They further fudge issues by talking about unilateral and bilateral covenants........What is that all about?
A unilateral covenant is a promise.

How simple is that: It's not rocket science!

Jehovah made four promises to Abraham because of what Abraham had already done out of faith. A promise is more powerful than a covenant.
Jesus made a promise to his 11 faithful followers because they had stuck with him.

With a promise no conditions are added.
With a covenant cutting or a sacrifice is involved.

Is this fudging deliberate on the part of the WT? If not then they are very poor Bible students. Either way the Holy Spirit is not with them.


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07-13-2010 11:37 AM
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JWHVACR
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Post: #45
RE: The Only Promise of Heavenly Life

Yes, and if the New Covenant had already promised life in heaven, what need was there for Jesus to make a promise to his Apostles, that they would be with him in heaven?


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07-13-2010 01:06 PM
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