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Watchtower treachery
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gogh
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Post: #16
RE: Watchtower treachery

Hi TryingtToBuildYouUp

Would you please expand a little regarding your statement:

"Its not up to us and we do not think it will be exclusively Jehovah's Witnesses saved. Everyone will get chance to live on earth in paradise."


It seems to me this is not an official/current position the Watchtower Organization teaches. Could you provide some Watchtower reference were this is taught?

(Contrary to your statement, it seems the Organization teaches one must be baptized (in good standing (not disfellowshipped), prior to the beginning of "The Tribulation" to be saved at Armageddon, as the "door" to safety (the Org.) will be shut at the onset of the Trib.)

Thanks,

gogh


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12-13-2010 03:40 PM
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Lauderdale
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Post: #17
RE: Watchtower treachery

TryingtToBuildYouUp Wrote:
Was just wandering what you peeps are saying the watchtower society got wrong. That the 144,000 are going to rule as kings over the earth? - Rev 5:9,10 7:4
or that there will be a massive great crowd that no one will be able to number who have the hope of everlasting life on earth? Rev 7:9, Rev 20:12,13. Isa 45:18
Restoration of earth to a paradise? - Ps 72:4-18
If everyone is going to rule as kings in heaven what are they gonna rule over?
Ive asked a lot of people who think they are going to heaven what they are going to do when they get there? A lot of people say that they don't know they will wait until they are there.The bible clearly states that they are chosen by god that they wont have to be taught and will rule over the earth.

The Basic teachings of the witnesses are quite easy to understand as they are gathered from the raw material of the bible.
Mistakes can be made just as the disciples did. But it is correcting and changing a teaching if you find that it is wrong that matters.

The quote from the WT April 1, 1938 p. 104
“The Jonadabs are "not" even justified, because the receiving of life everlasting depends upon their obedience within God’s organization and faithfully abiding there until the wrath of God is passed at Armageddon.”

This is a 70 year old watchtower. Witnesses nowadays are taught that it will all be up to Jehovah/Jesus/144000 to look into hearts of all People in all Nations/Religions and reap the harvest of sincere hearted individuals to be saved. Its not up to us and we do not think it will be exclusively Jehovah's Witnesses saved. Everyone will get chance to live on earth in paradise.
I am sure that if everyone on this forum is searching for the truth and if you have a sincere heart and want to get to know Jehovah and Jesus better then we will all hopefully see each other in the new system.

-

John 17:3 This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.





InChrist Wrote:
Garth said:Difference between Rachel's declared righteousness and that of the other sheep?

In Christ>> Garth, the apostle Paul would have loved to correct you. You purposefully try to cause a distinction here as to the word and meaning of Justification." ('Justified by faith: 'Right with God.
whoever puts faith and repents stays this way via Ish. 1:18, 1 John 1:9. Don't try and explain away Paul's clear doctrine. don't try to confuse the simple minded what Paul is saying....

Romans 4:3 What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness

For the Scriptures tell us, “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith

Romans 5:1 Therefore, since we have been made right in God’s sight by faith, we have peace with God because of what Jesus Christ our Lord has done for us.



Garth continues to prepare the simple minded for a 'new' meaning for the word justified as righteous. (You see, there is the biblical term, (1.) (The righteous. and, (2.) The unrighteous). But Garth is about to put 'new meaning' on all of this. Lets all listen in again to his twisted interpretation in his presentation, about, "Who are justified?"(3.?)
Garth continues>>> Rachel is declared righteous through faith in Jehovah. So too are the other sheep with 'the difference' being that in order for the other sheep to be delared righteous through their faith in Jehovah they must also have faith in Jesus Christ.

In Christ> (What he just insinuated was that only their so called, 144000 put faith in Jesus.) 'Wow,! That was just earth shattering information for us Garth! You should save that WT article and put it under your pillow at night. Boy Garth, that was really informative!' I mean, who would of ever thought that we must also have faith in Jesus Christ before ye are justified as righteous in the eyes of God???

Garth finishes with his smoke and mirrors>> 'Denying the sacrificial death and resurrection of Jesus would be a lack of faith in Jehovah.


InChrist>>Garth continues his smoke screen and his three pods and a pea, of who are justified as righteous and those who are 'unrighteous.' By the way. Have we all notice how the Jehovah Witness has studiously avoided 'clear bible passages to explain 'for him',or 'her' what they attempting to do from Watchtower 'books?'

Garth>>The scriptures say that Jesus will appoint 'princes' in the earth. I think we can assume that these 'princes' will be chosed from among the righteous rather than the unrighteous.

InChrist>> Garth after reading from Paul's defense of the 'Christian' doctrine of "Justification by faith, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that more than 144000, believing Jews (mentioned in Rev. 7)are justified as righteous in the eyes of God.' Paul was in direct opposition with the WT demonic teaching on who are in Christ and on this subject.The WT would teach any thing to keep its followers from 'partaking.'

“The Jonadabs are "not" even justified, because the receiving of life everlasting depends upon their obedience within God’s organization and faithfully abiding there until the wrath of God is passed at Armageddon.” WT April 1, 1938 p. 104



Hello TryingtToBuildYouUp

gogh is right, i was taught the same thing so if it has changed i would like to see it as well. Thank you for your time

Lauderdale :cheer:

12-13-2010 04:12 PM
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BruisedReed
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Post: #18
RE: Watchtower treachery

hello :hibye:and welcome :friends:to you TryingtToBuildYouUp!

Your name is so encouraging for that is indeed what we are here for! :grouphug:

First of all I would like to state right off that not everything I was as a witness since childhood has been wrong ... not can I regret that we were strongly encouraged to live a clean and moral life ...

But there ARE things that have been taught and are being taught now as 'new light' that can indeed be 'treacherous' if we were to believe them 'without question' and can cause the unwary and too trusting in MEN brothers and sisters to trip and fall if they do not open their hearts and hearts to JEHOVAH'S and CHRIST'S exhortations!

For example ...

You made this comment ...

... that there will be a massive great crowd that no one will be able to number who have the hope of everlasting life on earth? Rev 7:9, Rev 20:12,13. Isa 45:18


This is indeed what I would consider one of the cornerstone teachings of witnesses as it brings hope to countless millions!!:grouphug::grouphug::thumbsup:

It is because of this that I myself did a lot of research and meditating and praying over idea ...

In my studies I couldn't help but reflect on the TIMING of WHEN this 'great crowd' of individuals appear on the scene ...:thinking:

What do you think about the timing? :)

I do not mean to be argumentative or anything ... I am just curious to how you look at it ...

Warm Christian love, BR :sheepy: :bouncyhearts:


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12-13-2010 04:43 PM
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TryingtToBuildYouUp
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Post: #19
RE: Watchtower treachery

Everyone here is searching for the truth. If we all have a sincere heart then Jehovah and Jesus can see that! - Jer 17:10, Isa 11:3,4

Firstly they do teach that you have to be eventually excepting of the fact that Jehovah is God, Jesus is his son and show obedience to gods laws. But they teach that all the people who have never got to know accurate knowledge of Jehovah and Jesus will get the opportunity after Armageddon when they are resurrected as in Rev 20:12-15. In vs 12 another scroll is opened and we are going to be judged according to our deeds relating to that scroll.

So for all you deep studiers were gonna get hopefully a little bit more of the bible or that seems to be what it is suggesting.

Thankfully Satan is going to be bound for the 1000 years (Judgment Day) So all the misleading jumbled up ideas of all the multi religions will be done away with, Jesus will be ruling which will be ace and everyone will get the opportunity to learn the unadulterated truth. Those who fall away and reject the teachings then will be cut off.

As for being baptized and not dis-fellowshipped that is correct that they still believe that you need to be to get through Armageddon but apparently its going to be so obvious which the true religion is near the end it will be a clear choice yes or no, Black or white, Jehovah/Jesus or death.

Dan 12: 3 “And the ones having insight will shine like the brightness of the expanse; and those who are bringing the many to righteousness, like the stars to time indefinite, even forever.

4 “And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end. Many will rove about, and the [true] knowledge will become abundant.”

Can get more info.
Taken from watchtower.org
When Jesus was on earth, he—as earth’s future King—could rightly say to the repentant evildoer impaled alongside him: “You will be with me in Paradise.” (Luke 23:43) The Paradise that Jesus had in mind would be on earth, as God originally purposed. This fact is well supported in the Bible. Consider the following texts.

“The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it.” (Psalm 37:29) “There will come to be plenty of grain on the earth; on the top of the mountains there will be an overflow.” (Psalm 72:16) “The upright are the ones that will reside in the earth, and the blameless are the ones that will be left over in it.” (Proverbs 2:21) “They [the blameless] will not do any harm or cause any ruin in all my holy mountain; because the earth will certainly be filled with the knowledge of Jehovah as the waters are covering the very sea.”—Isaiah 11:9.

In harmony with those statements, in his famous Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said: “Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth.” (Matthew 5:5) Later, the apostle John wrote: “The tent of God is with mankind . . . He will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.” (Revelation 21:3, 4) Clearly, these Bible texts refer, not to a heavenly “paradise,” but to a physical one here on earth.
What Bible Scholars Have Said

Many Bible scholars maintain that under Christ’s Kingdom, earth will become a paradise. Said theologian Joseph A. Seiss: “The whole earth under the Messiah must then ultimately become . . . what it . . . would have been if Adam had never sinned.” In the commentary The New Testament for English Readers, Henry Alford wrote: “That kingdom of God . . . shall work onwards till it shall become actually a kingdom over this earth, and its subjects shall inherit the earth . . . , finally in its renewed and blessed state for ever.”—Italics his.

“Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth.”
—Matthew 5:5

Likewise, famous scientist and keen student of the Bible Isaac Newton wrote: “The earth shall continue to be inhabited by mortals [humans] after the day of judgment and that not only for 1000 years, but even for ever.”

Because the earth will come under the direct rule of Jesus Christ, wickedness will never again take root. (Isaiah 11:1-5, 9) Yes, the earth will be a paradise in every respect, forever a credit to its Creator.

gogh Wrote:
Hi TryingtToBuildYouUp

Would you please expand a little regarding your statement:

"Its not up to us and we do not think it will be exclusively Jehovah's Witnesses saved. Everyone will get chance to live on earth in paradise."


It seems to me this is not an official/current position the Watchtower Organization teaches. Could you provide some Watchtower reference were this is taught?

(Contrary to your statement, it seems the Organization teaches one must be baptized (in good standing (not disfellowshipped), prior to the beginning of "The Tribulation" to be saved at Armageddon, as the "door" to safety (the Org.) will be shut at the onset of the Trib.)

Thanks,

gogh


Matt 22:37-39 ‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 The second, like it, is this, ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’
12-13-2010 05:26 PM
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ablebodiedman
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Post: #20
RE: Watchtower treachery

TryingtToBuildYouUp Wrote:
As for being baptized and not dis-fellowshipped that is correct that they still believe that you need to be to get through Armageddon but apparently its going to be so obvious which the true religion is near the end it will be a clear choice yes or no, Black or white, Jehovah/Jesus or death.



TryingtToBuildYouUp,

The scriptures seem to indicate the opposite.

Being disfellowshipped is probably a good thing!

Read and understand this scripture:

Isaiah 66:5
Hear the word of Jehovah, YOU men who are trembling at his word: “YOUR brothers that are hating YOU, that are excluding YOU by reason of my name, said, ‘May Jehovah be glorified!’ He must also appear with rejoicing on YOUR part, and they are the ones that will be put to shame.”


There is only one religion on this planet who exclude brothers through the use of God's actual name.

Yes, please do some deep study.

Determine who will be put to shame.


The ones doing the disfellowshipping?

or

The ones being disfellowshipped?


The answer should be clear, yes or no, black or white.


Just trying to build you up.


In Christ

abe


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12-13-2010 05:42 PM
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Post: #21
RE: Watchtower treachery

Hi Trying!
Im not wanting to pick on you, but you keep stating things as fact that have been shown as wrong on this DB, so for the sake on new readers, I feel I must say something. For example, you seem to like to quote Jn 17:3;
John 17:3 This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.
This is an inaccurate translation, as there is nothing in the Greek that means one must be in the process of "taking in" knowledge. Likewise, the word "number" doesn't exisit in vs.2 either. The reference to Rev.5:10 where the priests will rule over the Earth is also incorrect. It should read, "on the Earth. :thumbup: Check your "Kingdom Interlinear".


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Henry Ward Beecher-1872 Preacher of Plymouth Church, Brooklyn, in his home later bought by C.H. Russell.
He is looking at the Brooklyn Bridge,,,, is it the way into, or, out of Brooklyn for you?
12-13-2010 06:02 PM
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TryingtToBuildYouUp
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Post: #22
RE: Watchtower treachery

I like it when people say ''There is only one religion on this planet doing a certain thing'' and applying it to JW's.

Although i really do not find joy in the dis fellowshipping of anyone for straying and starting to be disobedient to what the bible says. After repetitive warnings and chances to refrain from deliberate sinning if a brother/sister does not react to discipline from gods word then we have to carry out what is in:-

Thessalonians 3:6 Now we are giving YOU orders, brothers, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, to withdraw from every brother walking disorderly and not according to the tradition YOU received from us. 7 For YOU yourselves know the way YOU ought to imitate us, because we did not behave disorderly among YOU
3:14 But if anyone is not obedient to our word through this letter, keep this one marked, stop associating with him, that he may become ashamed. 15 And yet do not be considering him as an enemy, but continue admonishing him as a brother.

So although we have to stop associating with him. We still admonish him as a brother. Ie show him love!!!

There is nothing to do with hate in disfellowshipping so
Isa 66:5
Hear the word of Jehovah, YOU men who are trembling at his word: “YOUR brothers that are hating YOU, that are excluding YOU by reason of my name, said, ‘May Jehovah be glorified!’ He must also appear with rejoicing on YOUR part, and they are the ones that will be put to shame.”

We do not hate any people including disfellowshipped brothers/sisters so this scripture must be to do with something else!

try
John 16:2
Ga2:4
2Th 3

ablebodiedman Wrote:

TryingtToBuildYouUp Wrote:
As for being baptized and not dis-fellowshipped that is correct that they still believe that you need to be to get through Armageddon but apparently its going to be so obvious which the true religion is near the end it will be a clear choice yes or no, Black or white, Jehovah/Jesus or death.



TryingtToBuildYouUp,

The scriptures seem to indicate the opposite.

Being disfellowshipped is probably a good thing!

Read and understand this scripture:

Isaiah 66:5
Hear the word of Jehovah, YOU men who are trembling at his word: “YOUR brothers that are hating YOU, that are excluding YOU by reason of my name, said, ‘May Jehovah be glorified!’ He must also appear with rejoicing on YOUR part, and they are the ones that will be put to shame.”


There is only one religion on this planet who exclude brothers through the use of God's actual name.

Yes, please do some deep study.

Determine who will be put to shame.


The ones doing the disfellowshipping?

or

The ones being disfellowshipped?


The answer should be clear, yes or no, black or white.


Just trying to build you up.


In Christ

abe


Matt 22:37-39 ‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 The second, like it, is this, ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’
12-14-2010 01:02 AM
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ablebodiedman
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Post: #23
RE: Watchtower treachery

TryingtToBuildYouUp Wrote:
I like it when people say ''There is only one religion on this planet doing a certain thing'' and applying it to JW's.

Although i really do not find joy in the dis fellowshipping of anyone for straying and starting to be disobedient to what the bible says. After repetitive warnings and chances to refrain from deliberate sinning if a brother/sister does not react to discipline from gods word then we have to carry out what is in:-

Thessalonians 3:6 Now we are giving YOU orders, brothers, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, to withdraw from every brother walking disorderly and not according to the tradition YOU received from us. 7 For YOU yourselves know the way YOU ought to imitate us, because we did not behave disorderly among YOU
3:14 But if anyone is not obedient to our word through this letter, keep this one marked, stop associating with him, that he may become ashamed. 15 And yet do not be considering him as an enemy, but continue admonishing him as a brother.

So although we have to stop associating with him. We still admonish him as a brother. Ie show him love!!!

There is nothing to do with hate in disfellowshipping so
Isa 66:5
Hear the word of Jehovah, YOU men who are trembling at his word: “YOUR brothers that are hating YOU, that are excluding YOU by reason of my name, said, ‘May Jehovah be glorified!’ He must also appear with rejoicing on YOUR part, and they are the ones that will be put to shame.”

We do not hate any people including disfellowshipped brothers/sisters so this scripture must be to do with something else!

try
John 16:2
Ga2:4
2Th 3

ablebodiedman Wrote:

TryingtToBuildYouUp Wrote:
As for being baptized and not dis-fellowshipped that is correct that they still believe that you need to be to get through Armageddon but apparently its going to be so obvious which the true religion is near the end it will be a clear choice yes or no, Black or white, Jehovah/Jesus or death.



TryingtToBuildYouUp,

The scriptures seem to indicate the opposite.

Being disfellowshipped is probably a good thing!

Read and understand this scripture:

Isaiah 66:5
Hear the word of Jehovah, YOU men who are trembling at his word: “YOUR brothers that are hating YOU, that are excluding YOU by reason of my name, said, ‘May Jehovah be glorified!’ He must also appear with rejoicing on YOUR part, and they are the ones that will be put to shame.”


There is only one religion on this planet who exclude brothers through the use of God's actual name.

Yes, please do some deep study.

Determine who will be put to shame.


The ones doing the disfellowshipping?

or

The ones being disfellowshipped?


The answer should be clear, yes or no, black or white.


Just trying to build you up.


In Christ

abe



TryingtToBuildYouUp,

Guess you did not understand the scripture;

Hear the word of Jehovah, YOU men who are trembling at his word:


His word is the bible.

Its ok if you did not understand the first time round, just keep trying.


It will build you up.

In Christ


abe


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12-14-2010 01:41 AM
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ablebodiedman
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Post: #24
RE: Watchtower treachery

TryingtToBuildYouUp Wrote:
Although i really do not find joy in the dis fellowshipping of anyone for straying and starting to be disobedient to what the bible says.


TryingtToBuildYouUp,

I also don't find joy in people being disobedient to what the Bible says.

Luke 21:7-8
He said: “Look out that YOU are not misled; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The due time has approached.’ Do not go after them.

Thats why I like this forum.

There are a lot of people who obey the bible.... and Jesus Christ.

Keep coming here and we will build you up!


In Christ

abe


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12-14-2010 01:45 AM
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TryingtToBuildYouUp
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Post: #25
RE: Watchtower treachery

Thank you for your message.

The great crowd come through the great tribulation - Rev 7:14
As to when this great tribulation starts and finishes i don't like to speculate as much as some people on when and how things in the future will happen. To many times have people got it wrong! All i am sure about is that Jehovah will protect anyone he sees fit to go through and the wicked will be destroyed.
When the mass resurrection happens they are going to have to be taught the ways of Jehovah and Jesus so will they all come to life at the same time or gradually over the thousand years?
Will go away and do some studying. Thank you for your comment.

Brotherly love:friends::grouphug:
ttbyu

Quote:
For example ...

You made this comment ...

... that there will be a massive great crowd that no one will be able to number who have the hope of everlasting life on earth? Rev 7:9, Rev 20:12,13. Isa 45:18


This is indeed what I would consider one of the cornerstone teachings of witnesses as it brings hope to countless millions!!:grouphug::grouphug::thumbsup:

It is because of this that I myself did a lot of research and meditating and praying over idea ...

In my studies I couldn't help but reflect on the TIMING of WHEN this 'great crowd' of individuals appear on the scene ...:thinking:

What do you think about the timing? :)

I do not mean to be argumentative or anything ... I am just curious to how you look at it ...

Warm Christian love, BR :sheepy: :bouncyhearts:


Matt 22:37-39 ‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 The second, like it, is this, ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’
12-14-2010 02:23 AM
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BruisedReed
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Post: #26
RE: Watchtower treachery

Hello again br. ttbyu! :hibye:

Thanks for your thoughts ... :)

You said ...

The great crowd come through the great tribulation - Rev 7:14


I too used to think this way ... and I notice a ... at least to me ... very important word thought and thus conclusion by the use of the word 'THROUGH the great tribulation' ... :thinking:

Going by the premise that 'he that is faithful BIG things must also be faithful in SMALL things ... I think it would be safe to say the this would apply in principle to understanding of words and translation ... may I respectfully make this observation to you ...?:giverose:

The scripture :read: in Rev. 7:14 says according to the NWT ...

” 14 So right away I said to him: “My lord, you are the one that knows.” And he said to me: “These are the ones that come [color=#000080]out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. [/color] ... (not 'through)

Now if you look at our Diaglott we find that the Greek word for 'out of' is this ...

G1537 ἐκ, ἐξ

ek ex ek, ex


A primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence motion or action proceeds), from, out (of place, time or cause; literally or figuratively; direct or remote): - after, among, X are, at betwixt (-yond), by (the means of), exceedingly, (+ abundantly above), for (-th), from (among, forth, up), + grudgingly, + heartily, X heavenly, X hereby, + very highly, in, . . . ly, (because, by reason) of, off (from), on, out among (from, of), over, since, X thenceforth, through, X unto, X vehemently, with (-out). Often used in composition, with the same general import; often of completion.

Now, when we read this scripture in light of the setting ...

Rev. 7:3-15 ...

9 After these things I saw, and, look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. 10 And they keep on crying with a loud voice, saying: “Salvation [we owe] to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb.”

11 And all the angels were standing around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell upon their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying: “Amen! The blessing and the glory and the wisdom and the thanksgiving and the honor and the power and the strength [be] to our God forever and ever. Amen.”
13 And in response one of the elders said to me: “These who are dressed in the white robes, who are they and where did they come from?” 14 So right away I said to him: “My lord, you are the one that knows.” And he said to me: “These are the ones that come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 That is why they are before the throne of God; and they are rendering him sacred service day and night in his temple; and the One seated on the throne will spread his tent over them.


Now, when I stopped to think on these thoughts one day I couldn't help but reflect upon ... as the scriptures themselves say the earlier writings were written for warning (or lesson) for us now living ... of the Israelites when they went through a 'tribulation' of sorts when they experienced the 10 plagues ...

There already WERE faithful Israelites living in Egypt who also benefited from seeing these miraculous feats which would only reinforce their faith ... but what about all those OTHERS who were living there at that time?

Those OTHERS ... of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues ... was it not BECAUSE OF these plagues that hearts were touched and they BELIEVED and REPENTED and left WITH the FAITHFUL ISRAELITES .. as a VAST MIXED COMPANY? :thinking::dontknow:

This account along with a deeper understanding of what the meaning of the words 'OUT OF' meant in the Greek language opened up this scripture in Revelation for me so beautifully and wonderfully ...

That the Great Tribulation wasn't just about destruction and hard times for the world including our brothers and sisters ...

But a time of a sort of 'last chance' to reach the hearts of the 'world' ... to cause them to see and experience and feel the awesome Power of God and his Son and to have the OPPORTUNITY TO REPENT ...!!!:cheer:

Thus the expression ... 'washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.'

Haven't 'witnesses' ALREADY done that ...? In the context it would appear that the 'washing' was something 'new' for these ones ... and thus to me this scripture of the future hope of MILLIONS MORE becoming clean in God's eyes takes on even GREATER SIGNIFICANCE for our spiritual family (which is pretty well numbered right now) will truly be INNUMBERABLE!!!

What a blessing and what a shout of praise will arise from the earth indeed as this great crowd appears on the scene to join in with the ones who have already chosen to serve God and walk in the footsteps of our Lord!!

What do you think ...? Does this make sense to you?

Christian love, BR :sheepy: :bouncyhearts:


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12-14-2010 03:53 PM
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Disciple of Newness


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Post: #27
RE: Watchtower treachery

HiBR :giverose:
You have made me think on how nobody can claim to be in the Great Crowd at this time; not until the G Trib. is over and the GC comes out of it. Then they will be standing before the throne.:thumbup:


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Henry Ward Beecher-1872 Preacher of Plymouth Church, Brooklyn, in his home later bought by C.H. Russell.
He is looking at the Brooklyn Bridge,,,, is it the way into, or, out of Brooklyn for you?
12-14-2010 04:33 PM
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TryingtToBuildYouUp
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Post: #28
RE: Watchtower treachery

Hello Bruised Reed,

You make perfect sense and i apologize for my mistake in saying

Come through that was my mistake you are right OUT OF is the right way it is translated it makes sense that there will be a mass repentance and turning to god. :thumbsup:

Jehovahs witnesses have not washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb yet.

Witnesses i have spoken too believe that there will be this mass turning to god and a future hope of MILLIONS MORE becoming clean in God's eyes.

What you said makes brilliant sense!!:)

Quote:
This account along with a deeper understanding of what the meaning of the words 'OUT OF' meant in the Greek language opened up this scripture in Revelation for me so beautifully and wonderfully ...

That the Great Tribulation wasn't just about destruction and hard times for the world including our brothers and sisters ...

But a time of a sort of 'last chance' to reach the hearts of the 'world' ... to cause them to see and experience and feel the awesome Power of God and his Son and to have the OPPORTUNITY TO REPENT ...!!!:cheer:

Thus the expression ... 'washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.'

Haven't 'witnesses' ALREADY done that ...? In the context it would appear that the 'washing' was something 'new' for these ones ... and thus to me this scripture of the future hope of MILLIONS MORE becoming clean in God's eyes takes on even GREATER SIGNIFICANCE for our spiritual family (which is pretty well numbered right now) will truly be INNUMBERABLE!!!

What a blessing and what a shout of praise will arise from the earth indeed as this great crowd appears on the scene to join in with the ones who have already chosen to serve God and walk in the footsteps of our Lord!!

What do you think ...? Does this make sense to you?

Christian love, BR :sheepy: :bouncyhearts:


Matt 22:37-39 ‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 The second, like it, is this, ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’
12-14-2010 11:28 PM
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digging
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Post: #29
RE: Watchtower treachery

Just for the record i don't believe we on this board are all 100% in agreement on some major events we are all looking forwards to happening. That being said I also don't believe our salvation is based on pure doctrinal accuracy.
Thus I wish to share that I believe no one goes to heaven but simply some people receive thier restoration earlier than others, and they are the beginning of the bride, the beginning of God's Kingdom that grows and fills the whole earth.

In Rev 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying, " Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals ; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.

The word 'purchased' also mentioned in Rev 14:3 "And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders ; and no one could learn the song except the one hundred and forty-four thousand who had been purchased from the earth."

This is simply a different way of explaining the resurrection from the 'earth' ground, the dust Adam returned to. Because Jesus ransomed mankind, paid a price, purchased.

The first group of people resurrected are a limited group because only so many became faithful believers in the age. So they are call the firstfruits, they are the beginning, so the number 144,000 which is also linked with the citys size. Recall everyone must enter the city!

However many, many, many others will come from hearing what the spirit and the bride say and join themselves into one group of believers equal under thier Father. Everyone will become a king, a king over themselves reigning in life, with the crown of life.

Digging

12-15-2010 04:57 AM
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Beau Wetini
Me and my boy at the beach!


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Post: #30
RE: Watchtower treachery

I love it how the words "Watchtower" and "Treachery" seem to work so well together...almost like they are synonymous! :D:D:D


LIVE THE KINGDOM NOW!!


12-15-2010 05:24 AM
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