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Justification - Being Declared Righteous
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InChrist
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Post: #16
RE: Justification - Being Declared Righteous

e-magine Wrote:
Eph. 2:8, NWT.
"By this undeserved kindness, indeed, You have been saved through your faith: and this is not owing to you, it is God's gift." Amen!

The faith referenced here is faith in Christ, not any other man or body of men.



InChrist: It simply amazes me to see the WT and its spiritually blinded followers 'come alive' when anyone offers this basic Christianity "101" subject. The spirit in them can't stand the thought of banyone being free in Christ, (Gal. 5:1). They panic when ever they see people proclaiming their victory in Christ. 'They just have to be 'part of your salvation' you see. Its not about you and Jesus Christ.

There is no freedom in cult ...'book' studies. We have seen the poisions uzzing from their pages.

Romans 3:24 KJV "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus."
Romans 3:28 KJV "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."


Paul would be 'cast out' of the kingdom halls. I wonder what part of 3:28 abe can't understand? Their congregations were continually told that only 144000 people were justified as righteous in the eyes of God! “How honest is that?” This was a classic example of wanting their ears tickeled.
'Book' studies programed people from partaking of the Lord's Supper by 'throwing Paul out of the kingdom halls and spiritually mudering the relationship that Jesus wants with each believer, (Jn.17-21, 21, 22, 23).

In their book: “Life Everlasting In The Sons of God,” 1966. p. 391, they went on to say that the Great Crowd were taught to believe they didn’t receive justification promised in the N. T. The Great Crowd will not be justified or declared righteous either now nor then as the 144000 heavenly heirs have been justified while in the flesh”

Can you omaginge going to a congregation that controls your life?

Do you wisely destroy apostate material? WT 3/15/1986

They program you to allow them to be in 'total' control of your life. Those 'book' studies not only ask you the questions, but they also give you the answers that they want, telling you how to dress, think, act, and believe. You see what it has done to Abe.'

1 Timothty 4:1

InChrist

04-04-2010 08:32 PM
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Mavos
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Post: #17
RE: Justification - Being Declared Righteous

e-magine Wrote:
Eph. 2:8, NWT.
"By this undeserved kindness, indeed, You have been saved through your faith: and this is not owing to you, it is God's gift." Amen!

The faith referenced here is faith in Christ, not any other man or body of men.



Isn't it the height of blaspheme to replace Christ with "The Organization", as in the WT? The 'good news' they preach is nothing but bad news and condemnation. It is this teaching of justification that really shows you what religion is. Religion says "Do this, do this, and do this. Don't do this, or this. If you do this, then God will love you and there's a chance you might be saved." All religion teaches this same thing, from the Catholic Church, to the WT, to Islam, Judaiism, Hinduism, all of them. Only true Christianity teaches that there is nothing you can do, because JESUS has done it all. "It is FINISHED". If it's finished why do I need to do anything? This amazing free gift of grace should fill us with a desire to please the Lord in response! What heresy it is to say that we need to "go to the organization for salvation". Talk about spitting in the Lord's face.


"I remember two things: That I am a great sinner, and that Christ is a great Saviour." - John Newton
04-04-2010 08:51 PM
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Mavos
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Post: #18
RE: Justification - Being Declared Righteous

I think it also should be stated that we are justified by believing in Jesus, not by believing in justification by faith alone. It is very unfortunate that this has to be stated at all. We are not saved by having "accurate knowledge" to put it in WT terms. Satan has all the "accurate knowledge" in the world, doesn't help him one lick. A person may not be able to explain justification by faith alone. They may even be very confused about the subject. They may not understand the finer details and distinction of the imputation of Christ's active and passive righteousness, but that really doesn't matter. What matters is not what you know, but what you are doing. Are you trusting in Jesus. Saving faith, it has been said, has three aspects, 1) Knowledge 2) Assent 3) Trust.

1) Knowledge

Obviously there are things you NEED to know. (i.e. Jesus died for your sins and rose again, that he is the only way of salvation)

2) Assent

You agree that this is true. (The demons have 1 and 2)

3) Trust

You place all your confidence, love, and hope in Jesus alone. You rely solely on him. Not on yourself, or your religion, or denomination, or governing body. You treasure Christ above all things. This is what I'm talking about.

So once again:
You are not saved by believing in Justification by faith alone, but by by believing in and trusting Jesus (which is justification by faith alone if you realize it or not.)

There are many who believe in Justification by faith, but who don't trust Jesus. May none of us be in that camp.

Grace and peace to you,

Matt


"I remember two things: That I am a great sinner, and that Christ is a great Saviour." - John Newton
04-28-2010 08:59 AM
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BethelBoy
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Post: #19
RE: Justification - Being Declared Righteous

I just finished reading all the posts and wanted to add a hearty AMEN:D:D:D

I was thinking about a quote by D.L. Moody.

He was approached by a man saying, how am I suppose to know what religion is right there are so many!!

Mr. Moody replied So many I know of only 2 those who have a Saviour and those who don't.

I remember hearing this saying before I came to know Christ as Lord and Saviour.

" Jesus your personal ". I was totally mystified by it. How can someone know Jesus as their " Personal Saviour "? He died almost over 2000 yrs ago.

So back in 1998 my wife managed to talk me into going to Church. ( I used to do the groceries Sunday mornings or stay in bed hungover )

As the guy preaching spoke it seemed like he knew my inner thoughts ( things there was no way in the world a stranger could know )

My wife and I still laugh about it, because I told her what had happened and asked her " Am I going crazy? How can this guy know those things? (I didn't have a clue about the Holy spirit )

Well the next time I went the guy spoke and one verse he brought up was Romans 6:23

23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.


The following Saturday, thinking about church the next day I was recalling what the guy said. I was in a panic " the wages of sin " man I've been rackin' them up for 40 years. For 40 years I have been offending God :( Worst of all God knows each and every single one:(

Since I knew that one day I was going to die, it must be talking about " that second death thing" :cry::cry::cry: " I am in BIG trouble ". Then another thought came Eternal Life is in "Jesus Christ OUR LORD"?

I knew that people at that church could say OUR LORD.:) I knew my wife could say OUR LORD.:D I knew on the other hand that I could not.:(

These folks talked about Jesus as if they actually knew Him.

I had heard many times how He had died for me and my sins and I had never once even spoken to Him!!

So that night it ALL Changed with a simple conversation between me and " My LORD and SAVIOUR ".

Before that night I constantly wished I could just die and escape this horrible world.

That night I did:D:D:D

Colossians 3:3
For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

When I think of adding "our works" to the finished work of Christ. I think of this verse from Romans.

Romans 1:18
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,


God's wrath is against " ALL ungodliness " I would have to say our best deeds, on our best day,like the scriptures say are like filthy rags before the Holiness of God.

James 4:17
Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin.


I leave you with the lyrics to my latest song.

He is with me

Today I walk through this world by faith
I know I’m not alone.
whether on the highest mountain top
or the deepest valley below.



Chorus
He is with me, He is with me, He is with me everywhere I go.
One day faith will turn to sight nail scared hands will reach for mine. He’ll be with me, He’ll be with me, He’ll be with me with me when I go.



When the winds of life blow in my face
He’s the shelter from each storm.
Life can be cold and hard but my Lord keeps me warm.



Chorus
He is with me, He is with me, He is with me everywhere I go
One day faith will turn to sight, nail scared hands will reach for mine. He’ll be with me, He’ll be with me, He’ll be with me with me when I go.



Banks can close, Wall Street can fail, I’ve not a worry or care.
Christ is my Rock, my Salvation, all my interest is there.


Chorus
He is with me, He is with me, He is with me everywhere I go
One day faith will turn to sight nail scared hands will reach for mine He’ll be with me, He’ll be with me, He’ll be with me with me when I go

One day faith will turn to sight, nail scared hands will reach for mine. He’ll be with me, He’ll be with me, He’ll be with me with me when I go.


Love to all,

BB:happyheart::heartbeat::happyheart:


http://www.uplook.org
http://www.voicesforchrist.org/order.html

Jesus sent him away, saying, 39 Return to your own house, and tell what great things God has done for you. And he went his way and proclaimed throughout the whole city what great things Jesus had done for him.

04-29-2010 10:54 PM
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Mavos
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Post: #20
RE: Justification - Being Declared Righteous

BethelBoy Wrote:
I just finished reading all the posts and wanted to add a hearty AMEN:D:D:D

I was thinking about a qoute by D.L. Moody.

He was approached by a man saying, how am I suppose to know what religion is right there are so many!!

Mr. Moody replied So many I know of only 2 those who have a Saviour and those who don't.

I remember hearing this saying before I came to know Christ as Lord and Saviour.

" Jesus your personal ". I was totally mystified by it. How can someone know Jesus as their " Personal Saviour "? He died almost over 2000 yrs ago.

So back in 1998 my wife managed to talk me into going to Church. ( I used to do the groceries Sunday mornings or stay in bed hungover )

As the guy preaching spoke it seemed like he knew my inner thoughts ( things there was no way in the world a stranger could know )

My wife and I still laugh about it, because I told her what had happened and asked her " Am I going crazy? How can this guy know those things? (I didn't have a clue about the Holy spirit )

Well the next time I went the guy spoke and one verse he brought up was Romans 6:23

23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.


The following Saturday, thinking about church the next day I was recalling what the guy said. I was in a panic " the wages of sin " man I've been rackin' them up for 40 years. For 40 years I have been offending God :( Worst of all God knows each and every single one:(

Since I knew that one day I was going to die, it must be talking about " that second death thing" :cry::cry::cry: " I am in BIG trouble ". Then another thought came Eternal Life is in "Jesus Christ OUR LORD"?

I knew that people at that church could say OUR LORD.:) I knew my wife could say OUR LORD.:D I knew on the other hand that I could not.:(

These folks talked about Jesus as if they actually knew Him.

I had heard many times how He had died for me and my sins and I had never once even spoken to Him!!

So that night it ALL Changed with a simple conversation between me and " My LORD and SAVIOUR ".

Before that night I constantly wished I could just die and escape this horrible world.

That night I did:D:D:D

Colossians 3:3
For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

When I think of adding "our works" to the finished work of Christ. I think of this verse from Romans.

Romans 1:18
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,


God's wrath is against " ALL ungodliness " I would have to say our best deeds, on our best day,like the scriptures say are like filthy rags before the Holiness of God.

James 4:17
Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin.


I leave you with the lyrics to my latest song.

He is with me

Today I walk through this world by faith
I know I’m not alone.
whether on the highest mountain top
or the deepest valley below.



Chorus
He is with me, He is with me, He is with me everywhere I go.
One day faith will turn to sight nail scared hands will reach for mine. He’ll be with me, He’ll be with me, He’ll be with me with me when I go.



When the winds of life blow in my face
He’s the shelter from each storm.
Life can be cold and hard but my Lord keeps me warm.



Chorus
He is with me, He is with me, He is with me everywhere I go
One day faith will turn to sight, nail scared hands will reach for mine. He’ll be with me, He’ll be with me, He’ll be with me with me when I go.



Banks can close, Wall Street can fail, I’ve not a worry or care.
Christ is my Rock, my Salvation, all my interest is there.


Chorus
He is with me, He is with me, He is with me everywhere I go
One day faith will turn to sight nail scared hands will reach for mine He’ll be with me, He’ll be with me, He’ll be with me with me when I go

One day faith will turn to sight, nail scared hands will reach for mine. He’ll be with me, He’ll be with me, He’ll be with me with me when I go.


Love to all,

BB:happyheart::heartbeat::happyheart:


I see you've been allowed back "downstairs" (i.e. let out of the controversy room). :drinking::hug: :thumbup: Thanks for sharing your testimony! Always great to hear how the Lord works in people's lives.

Grace and peace to you!

Matt


"I remember two things: That I am a great sinner, and that Christ is a great Saviour." - John Newton
04-29-2010 11:22 PM
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Mavos
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Post: #21
RE: Justification - Being Declared Righteous

As there has been some controversy over this subject, I thought I'd post something new here. This is from a document written in Heidelberg, Germany in 1563. It is a question and answer method of instruction.

Q. How are you right with God?

A. Only by true faith in Jesus Christ. (Rom. 3:21-28; Gal. 2:16; Eph. 2:8-9; Phil 3:8-11)

Even though my conscience accuses me of having grievously sinned against all God's commandments and of never having kept any of them (Rom. 3:9-10), and even though I am still inclined toward all evil (Rom. 7:23), nevertheless, without my deserving it at all (Tit. 3:4-5), out of sheer grace (Rom. 3:24; Eph. 2:8), God grants and credits to me the perfect satisfaction, righteousness, and holiness of Christ (Rom. 4:3-5; Gen. 15:6; 2 Cor. 5:17-19; 1 John 2:1-2), as if I had never sinned nor been a sinner, as if I had been as perfectly obedient as Christ was obedient for me. (Rom. 4:24-25; 2 Cor. 5:21)

All I need to do is to accept this gift of God with a believing heart. (John 3:18; Acts 16:30-31)

Q. Why do you say that by faith alone you are right with God?

A. It is not because of any value my faith has that God is pleased with me. Only Christ's satisfaction, righteousness, and holiness make me right with God. (1 Cor. 1:30-31) And I can receive this righteousness and make it mine in no other way than by faith alone. (Rom. 10:10; 1 John 5:10-12)

Q. Why can't the good we do make us right with God, or at least help make us right with him?

A. Because the righteousness which can pass God's scrutiny must be entirely perfect and must in every way measure up to the divine law. (Rom. 3:20; Gal. 3:10; Deut. 27:26) Even the very best we do in this life is imperfect and stained with sin. (Isa. 64:6)

Q. How can you say that the good we do doesn't earn anything when God promises to reward it in this life and the next? (Matt. 5:12; Heb. 11:6)

A. This reward is not earned; it is a gift of grace. (Luke 17:10; 2 Tim. 4:7-8)

Q. But doesn't this teaching make people indifferent and wicked?

A. No. It is impossible for those grafted into Christ by true faith not to produce fruits of gratitude. (Luke 6:43-45; John 15:5)


"I remember two things: That I am a great sinner, and that Christ is a great Saviour." - John Newton
11-24-2010 12:28 PM
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ablebodiedman
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Post: #22
RE: Justification - Being Declared Righteous

Matthew 19:16-19
Now, look! a certain one came up to him and said: “Teacher, what good must I do in order to get everlasting life?” 17 He said to him: “Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is that is good. If, though, you want to enter into life, observe the commandments continually.” 18 He said to him: “Which ones?” Jesus said: “Why, You must not murder, You must not commit adultery, You must not steal, You must not bear false witness, 19 Honor [your] father and [your] mother, and, You must love your neighbor as yourself.”


John 14:15
“If YOU love me, YOU will observe my commandments.


John 14:21
He that has my commandments and observes them, that one is he who loves me. In turn he that loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will plainly show myself to him.


John 15:14
YOU are my friends if YOU do what I am commanding YOU


In Christ

abe


the spiritual man examines all things

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The Unforgivable Sin
11-24-2010 01:50 PM
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Mavos
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Post: #23
RE: Justification - Being Declared Righteous

Abe, do you "observe the commandments continually"? Continually? Perfectly? No you don't. No one does. And if you say you do "observe the commandments continually" I am going to call you a self-righteous liar. The obedience God requires is a perfect obedience. That is something you can't give. The Prophets say that in God's eyes, the obedience you do give is like a used menstrual rag, bloody tampons. That is the whole point. You wrongly assume that eternal life can be earned through good deeds. The command to perfect obedience was intended to shatter the our deluded notion of attaining a personal goodness that merited salvation. By commanding us to obey perfectly, it shows that we can't. By showing that you can't continually observe the commandments it shows that you need a savior. It shows that you need to cling to Christ by faith because he "observed the commandments continually" instead of you and in your place. Deny this and you deny Christianity and Christ himself.

John 14:15, John 14:21, and John 15:14 are all descriptions of what the life of someone who clings to Christ by faith looks like. These are descriptive not prescriptive.

So in summary, Abe, you do not "observe the commandments continually" and thus by your own interpretation should not "get everlasting life".

Jesus himself illustrates this beautifully:

“Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’ “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’ “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.” (Luke 18:10-14 NIV)


"I remember two things: That I am a great sinner, and that Christ is a great Saviour." - John Newton
11-24-2010 02:48 PM
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ablebodiedman
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Post: #24
RE: Justification - Being Declared Righteous

Mavos Wrote:
Abe, do you "observe the commandments continually"? Continually? Perfectly? No you don't. No one does. And if you say you do "observe the commandments continually" I am going to call you a self-righteous liar. The obedience God requires is a perfect obedience. That is something you can't give. The Prophets say that in God's eyes, the obedience you do give is like a used menstrual rag, bloody tampons. That is the whole point. You wrongly assume that eternal life can be earned through good deeds. The command to perfect obedience was intended to shatter the our deluded notion of attaining a personal goodness that merited salvation. By commanding us to obey perfectly, it shows that we can't. By showing that you can't continually observe the commandments it shows that you need a savior. It shows that you need to cling to Christ by faith because he "observed the commandments continually" instead of you and in your place. Deny this and you deny Christianity and Christ himself.

John 14:15, John 14:21, and John 15:14 are all descriptions of what the life of someone who clings to Christ by faith looks like. These are descriptive not prescriptive.

So in summary, Abe, you do not "observe the commandments continually" and thus by your own interpretation should not "get everlasting life".

Jesus himself illustrates this beautifully:

“Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’ “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’ “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.” (Luke 18:10-14 NIV)



Mavos,

I simply quoted Jesus Christ in the post above with no commentary.

You are not arguing with me.

You really have faith?

And you don't like what he said?


Take your argument to Jesus Christ.


He's the King!


In Christ

abe


the spiritual man examines all things

Jehovah's Witnesses - The Bible Report
The Unforgivable Sin
11-24-2010 03:14 PM
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Mavos
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Post: #25
RE: Justification - Being Declared Righteous

ablebodiedman Wrote:

Mavos Wrote:
Abe, do you "observe the commandments continually"? Continually? Perfectly? No you don't. No one does. And if you say you do "observe the commandments continually" I am going to call you a self-righteous liar. The obedience God requires is a perfect obedience. That is something you can't give. The Prophets say that in God's eyes, the obedience you do give is like a used menstrual rag, bloody tampons. That is the whole point. You wrongly assume that eternal life can be earned through good deeds. The command to perfect obedience was intended to shatter the our deluded notion of attaining a personal goodness that merited salvation. By commanding us to obey perfectly, it shows that we can't. By showing that you can't continually observe the commandments it shows that you need a savior. It shows that you need to cling to Christ by faith because he "observed the commandments continually" instead of you and in your place. Deny this and you deny Christianity and Christ himself.

John 14:15, John 14:21, and John 15:14 are all descriptions of what the life of someone who clings to Christ by faith looks like. These are descriptive not prescriptive.

So in summary, Abe, you do not "observe the commandments continually" and thus by your own interpretation should not "get everlasting life".

Jesus himself illustrates this beautifully:

“Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’ “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’ “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.” (Luke 18:10-14 NIV)



Mavos,

I simply quoted Jesus Christ in the post above with no commentary.

You are not arguing with me.

You really have faith?

And you don't like what he said?


Take your argument to Jesus Christ.


He's the King!


In Christ

abe


Don't give me that.

You didn't just quote them, you highlighted and boded the parts you wanted emphasized. You are giving your interpretation. I know this from other threads.

My argument is not with Jesus because I know that when he said, "observe the commandments continually" he knew that we can't. I know that Jesus was trying to get this guy to see that it isn't about our obedience, because we simply can't give God the obedience he requires. Faith and trust in Christ is what God requires. That is the message of Christ and the apostles. You are not properly handling God's word.

Abe, please provide me with a verse by verse, phrase by phrase, word by word, exposition and explanation of Romans 4:1-9.

Thanks,
Matt


"I remember two things: That I am a great sinner, and that Christ is a great Saviour." - John Newton
11-24-2010 03:46 PM
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ablebodiedman
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Post: #26
RE: Justification - Being Declared Righteous

Mavos Wrote:

ablebodiedman Wrote:

Mavos Wrote:
Abe, do you "observe the commandments continually"? Continually? Perfectly? No you don't. No one does. And if you say you do "observe the commandments continually" I am going to call you a self-righteous liar. The obedience God requires is a perfect obedience. That is something you can't give. The Prophets say that in God's eyes, the obedience you do give is like a used menstrual rag, bloody tampons. That is the whole point. You wrongly assume that eternal life can be earned through good deeds. The command to perfect obedience was intended to shatter the our deluded notion of attaining a personal goodness that merited salvation. By commanding us to obey perfectly, it shows that we can't. By showing that you can't continually observe the commandments it shows that you need a savior. It shows that you need to cling to Christ by faith because he "observed the commandments continually" instead of you and in your place. Deny this and you deny Christianity and Christ himself.

John 14:15, John 14:21, and John 15:14 are all descriptions of what the life of someone who clings to Christ by faith looks like. These are descriptive not prescriptive.

So in summary, Abe, you do not "observe the commandments continually" and thus by your own interpretation should not "get everlasting life".

Jesus himself illustrates this beautifully:

“Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’ “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’ “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.” (Luke 18:10-14 NIV)



Mavos,

I simply quoted Jesus Christ in the post above with no commentary.

You are not arguing with me.

You really have faith?

And you don't like what he said?


Take your argument to Jesus Christ.


He's the King!


In Christ

abe


Don't give me that.

You didn't just quote them, you highlighted and boded the parts you wanted emphasized. You are giving your interpretation. I know this from other threads.

My argument is not with Jesus because I know that when he said, "observe the commandments continually" he knew that we can't. I know that Jesus was trying to get this guy to see that it isn't about our obedience, because we simply can't give God the obedience he requires. Faith and trust in Christ is what God requires. That is the message of Christ and the apostles. You are not properly handling God's word.

Abe, please provide me with a verse by verse, phrase by phrase, word by word, exposition and explanation of Romans 4:1-9.

Thanks,
Matt


Mavos,

You really have faith in Jesus Christ?

Believe what he said!

You are arguing with him.

Not me.


In Christ

abe


the spiritual man examines all things

Jehovah's Witnesses - The Bible Report
The Unforgivable Sin
11-24-2010 04:18 PM
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Mavos
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Post: #27
RE: Justification - Being Declared Righteous

Abe, please provide me with a verse by verse, phrase by phrase, word by word, exposition and explanation of Romans 4:1-9.

1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”

9 Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abraham’s faith was credited to him as righteousness.


"I remember two things: That I am a great sinner, and that Christ is a great Saviour." - John Newton
11-24-2010 04:22 PM
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ablebodiedman
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Post: #28
RE: Justification - Being Declared Righteous

Mavos Wrote:
Abe, please provide me with a verse by verse, phrase by phrase, word by word, exposition and explanation of Romans 4:1-9.

1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”

9 Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abraham’s faith was credited to him as righteousness.


Mavos,

Why should I do that for you?

Did you find a reason there to not believe what Jesus Christ said?

If you have faith then believe what Jesus Christ said.

Everything he said is the truth.

Having faith simply measures your ability to believe the truths that he said.

John 8:46-47
If I speak truth, why is it YOU do not believe me? 47 He that is from God listens to the sayings of God. This is why YOU do not listen, because YOU are not from God.”


The only answer I can give you is to have faith and believe him.


If you don't think what Jesus Christ said is the truth then your argument is with him.


Not me!


In Christ

abe


the spiritual man examines all things

Jehovah's Witnesses - The Bible Report
The Unforgivable Sin
11-24-2010 04:45 PM
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Mavos
The pluckiest Christian on the board.


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Post: #29
RE: Justification - Being Declared Righteous

Let me make a few comments on this passage from Matthew 19 because I am not arguing with Jesus. I understand Jesus isn't saying what you think he is.

Notice Jesus initial reply: "There is only one who is good."

Only in understanding God as infinitely good can the young man discover that human good deeds cannot earn eternal life.

Next notice the phrase "keep the commandments."

Jesus is not teaching that good works can earn eternal life, for in verses 21–22 he will show the man how far short he falls of keeping the first commandment (compare Exodus 20:3) and the first of the two greatest commandments (look up Deuteronomy 6:5; Matthew 22:36–40). But obedience to the law is what flows naturally out of trust in the truly good God who is the source of all good, including eternal life. Scripture in other places clearly affirms that salvation is a gift of God's grace received through faith, and not by works.

One of those places is Romans 4:1-9. Abe, please provide me with an exposition and explanation of Romans 4:1-9.

You refuse to do this because you know what Romans teaches. You utterly refuse to look at what the Bible says. Instead you proof text it and rip verses out of their contexts and you do not let the entire revelation of God to speak.

Abe, please provide me with an exposition and explanation of Romans 4:1-9.

All scripture is God-breathed. What Paul says is just as much the Words of God as what Jesus says. There are no contradictions in Scripture. Paul clearly teaches that salvation is not based on our obedience and Jesus must be understood in the light of that.

I agree with Jesus. If you are able to obey God perfectly you will have eternal life. That is true. However, since it is clear that no one can obey perfectly Jesus is trying to show us that we can't obey God perfectly. He is showing us the high standards of God so that we can see how far we fall short. He is showing us that we stand condemned under the weight of God's wrath and need a Savior.

Your way doesn't require a Savior. All you need is an angel to cry out from heaven, "BE BETTER". "TRY HARDER". If what you say is true Christ died in vain.

So Abe, please provide me with an exposition and explanation of Romans 4:1-9.


"I remember two things: That I am a great sinner, and that Christ is a great Saviour." - John Newton
11-24-2010 04:48 PM
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ablebodiedman
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Post: #30
RE: Justification - Being Declared Righteous

Mavos,

In Romans the Apostle Paul explained that it did not matter if a man was unrighteous or righteous. It did not matter whether he sinned or did not sin.

He still dies!

Upon the arrival of Jesus Christ, his death and resurrection, it now does matter.

A righteous man can have everlasting life.

That is why John the Baptist said; "Repent and be baptised".

Repent of what?

Your past sins!

Baptised into what?

Jesus Christ's death!

Then what?

Continue making the same sins that you just repented?

No!

Now you have a chance for everlasting life because your past sins have been forgiven.

A previously unrighteous man has been declared righteous.

Its a free gift!

You get a clean slate!

Now you obey Jesus Christ!


That is very important!


Why?


Hebrews 10:26-29
For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, 27 but [there is] a certain fearful expectation of judgment and [there is] a fiery jealousy that is going to consume those in opposition. 28 Any man that has disregarded the law of Moses dies without compassion, upon the testimony of two or three. 29 Of how much more severe a punishment, do YOU think, will the man be counted worthy who has trampled upon the Son of God and who has esteemed as of ordinary value the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and who has outraged the spirit of undeserved kindness with contempt?


Have Faith!

Believe what Jesus Christ said!


Do not treat the free gift, his grace and mercy, the undeserved kindness with contempt!


Here is what Jesus Christ said:

Quote:
Matthew 19:16-19
Now, look! a certain one came up to him and said: “Teacher, what good must I do in order to get everlasting life?” 17 He said to him: “Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is that is good. If, though, you want to enter into life, observe the commandments continually.” 18 He said to him: “Which ones?” Jesus said: “Why, You must not murder, You must not commit adultery, You must not steal, You must not bear false witness, 19 Honor [your] father and [your] mother, and, You must love your neighbor as yourself.”


John 14:15
“If YOU love me, YOU will observe my commandments.


John 14:21
He that has my commandments and observes them, that one is he who loves me. In turn he that loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will plainly show myself to him.


John 15:14
YOU are my friends if YOU do what I am commanding YOU



You got the free gift of forgiveness when you were baptised.


After being baptised a righteous man now has the opportunity to have life everlasting.


Do not treat that free gift with contempt.


OBEY JESUS CHRIST!



In Christ

abe


the spiritual man examines all things

Jehovah's Witnesses - The Bible Report
The Unforgivable Sin
11-24-2010 06:05 PM
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