Latest News: The Great Trubulation


Pages (2): « First [1] 2 Next > Last »
1 Corinthians 11:20-22
Author Message
JWHVACR
Older Man


Posts: 946
Group: Registered Plus
Joined: Feb 2007
Status: Offline
Post: #1
1 Corinthians 11:20-22

! Corinthians 11:20-22 reads (2001): "Now, when you meet together in one place, it isn’t to eat the Lord’s Supper, for, you’re all [bringing] your own meals to eat before you partake. So, who knows who’s still hungry and who’s already had too much to drink? Don’t you have houses where you can eat and drink? Or do you condemn the congregation of God and shame those who are poor?

"What should I say to you? Should I praise you? In this, I don’t praise you."

I wish that we knew the actual circumstances that Paul was writing about, but we don't. Sure, we can gather some clues from his admonition, but I still wonder.

However, verse 20 seems to indicate that the "Lord's Supper" was celebrated at every congregational meeting (like the Catholic Mass). What do you think?


"Our minds don't control our beliefs, our beliefs control our minds."
"A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking."
"Buying into someone's religious, philosophical, or political teachings is the point where you've decided to allow them to do your thinking for you."
05-10-2010 05:11 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
gogh
Participator


Posts: 3,239
Group: Moderator
Joined: Dec 2006
Status: Offline
Post: #2
RE: 1 Corinthians 11:20-22

Greetings JWHVACR

Reflecting on the value of our Lords shed blood/offering his life; I think of scripture describing yearly sacrifice...

Hebrews 9:24...

"For Christ did not go into a sanctuary made by human hands and just a copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in God's presence on our behalf.
Nor did he go into heaven to sacrifice himself again and again, the way the high priest goes into the Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own.
Then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But now, at the end of the ages, he has appeared once for all to remove sin by his sacrifice.
Indeed, just as people are appointed to die once and after that to be judged,
so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people. And he will appear a second time, not to deal with sin, but to bring salvation to those who eagerly wait for him."

Might the significance of this yearly sacrifice be diminished (seeminly, to some...) if it were to be performed more often (monthly/weekly/daily/whenever, etc)?

(I'm not saying I believe this was meant to be a carved in stone pattern to follow...it's just a thought)

.02,

gogh


"......."This is my Son, whom I have chosen. Keep listening to him!" Luke 9:35
05-10-2010 07:26 PM
Find all posts by this user
JWHVACR
Older Man


Posts: 946
Group: Registered Plus
Joined: Feb 2007
Status: Offline
Post: #3
RE: 1 Corinthians 11:20-22

Hi Gogh;

I agree that an annual celebration makes more sense scripturally. However, the wording in Corinthians makes me wonder what they were actually doing.


"Our minds don't control our beliefs, our beliefs control our minds."
"A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking."
"Buying into someone's religious, philosophical, or political teachings is the point where you've decided to allow them to do your thinking for you."
05-11-2010 06:41 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
ablebodiedman
Member


Posts: 3,641
Group: Registered Plus
Joined: Apr 2007
Status: Offline
Post: #4
RE: 1 Corinthians 11:20-22

JWHVACR Wrote:
! Corinthians 11:20-22 reads (2001): "Now, when you meet together in one place, it isn’t to eat the Lord’s Supper, for, you’re all [bringing] your own meals to eat before you partake. So, who knows who’s still hungry and who’s already had too much to drink? Don’t you have houses where you can eat and drink? Or do you condemn the congregation of God and shame those who are poor?

"What should I say to you? Should I praise you? In this, I don’t praise you."

I wish that we knew the actual circumstances that Paul was writing about, but we don't. Sure, we can gather some clues from his admonition, but I still wonder.

However, verse 20 seems to indicate that the "Lord's Supper" was celebrated at every congregational meeting (like the Catholic Mass). What do you think?


JWHVACR,

Could it have something to do with eating and drinking with the drunkards?


Matthew 24:48
“But if ever that evil slave should say in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’ 49 and should start to beat his fellow slaves and should eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards,

Hosea 9:4
They will not continue pouring out wine to Jehovah. And their sacrifices will not be gratifying to him; they are like the bread of times of mourning to them; all those eating it will defile themselves. For their bread is for their own soul; it will not come into the house of Jehovah.



In Christ

abe


the spiritual man examines all things

Jehovah's Witnesses - The Bible Report
The Unforgivable Sin
05-12-2010 11:55 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
JWHVACR
Older Man


Posts: 946
Group: Registered Plus
Joined: Feb 2007
Status: Offline
Post: #5
RE: 1 Corinthians 11:20-22

ablebodiedman Wrote:
Could it have something to do with eating and drinking with the drunkards?

Well, Abe; bringing their meals along also had something to do with it. But the question is; whether they were partaking at every meeting or just once a year.


"Our minds don't control our beliefs, our beliefs control our minds."
"A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking."
"Buying into someone's religious, philosophical, or political teachings is the point where you've decided to allow them to do your thinking for you."
05-12-2010 12:20 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Willa
Peace, baby!


Posts: 2,384
Group: Moderator
Joined: Dec 2006
Status: Offline
Post: #6
RE: 1 Corinthians 11:20-22

You know Jim, maybe it had to do with the times in which they lived and the certain persecution they were under. Perhaps they tried to make the most of every opportunity they had to keep the Lord's sacrificed flesh and blood close in mind and heart - constant reminders. Doing so would surely encourage them to keep their newborn faith alive, no matter what terrible consequences their being Christians brought upon them.

Just a sudden thought. :D

:peace:


:heartbeat: You are my friends! I don't think it just by chance, but by God's Grand Design, that He has guided both our steps... to let your paths cross mine. :heartbeat:
05-12-2010 01:09 PM
Find all posts by this user
JWHVACR
Older Man


Posts: 946
Group: Registered Plus
Joined: Feb 2007
Status: Offline
Post: #7
RE: 1 Corinthians 11:20-22

Sounds reasonable, Willa.


"Our minds don't control our beliefs, our beliefs control our minds."
"A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking."
"Buying into someone's religious, philosophical, or political teachings is the point where you've decided to allow them to do your thinking for you."
05-12-2010 01:12 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Totaldismay
Member


Posts: 1,661
Group: Registered Plus
Joined: Dec 2006
Status: Offline
Post: #8
RE: 1 Corinthians 11:20-22

to add on willa's thought.

somebody used to have the frontlet band for a reminder of the law.

I could see the more often we make memorial the more focused on Jesus we would be in general. And what his death and Life meant for us.

05-12-2010 02:20 PM
Find all posts by this user
Derek
Member


Posts: 1,075
Group: Registered
Joined: May 2008
Status: Offline
Post: #9
RE: 1 Corinthians 11:20-22

Hi all,
Personally, had I not once been a JW, I would never have thought the scriptures indicated a once a year celebration of the Lord's death.

I believe the early Christians celebrated Jesus death as regularly as once a week, like you indicated was a possibility at the outset, Jim.
regards
Derek



We go in faith, our own great weakness feeling,
And needing more each day Thy grace to know:
Yet from our hearts a song of triumph pealing,
“We rest on Thee, and in Thy Name we go.”
05-12-2010 03:31 PM
Find all posts by this user
brendan
Member


Posts: 691
Group: Registered
Joined: Dec 2007
Status: Offline
Post: #10
RE: 1 Corinthians 11:20-22

Hi Folks,

My guess is that the early Christians were keen to commemorate the covenant regularly out of a combination of enthusiasm and the need for mutual reinforcement of their faith by meeting together often to perform the ritual.

It might be that when Christianity became more academic, they concluded that the memorial was a new Passover, which was an annual event.

In my Catholic days, the Eucharist was celebrated in a special way every Sunday but it was available every day of the week for those who wanted it.

Regards,
Brendan.

05-12-2010 05:21 PM
Find all posts by this user
JWHVACR
Older Man


Posts: 946
Group: Registered Plus
Joined: Feb 2007
Status: Offline
Post: #11
RE: 1 Corinthians 11:20-22

I understand, and history weighs heavily in favor of a weekly celebration. But at the Witnesses point out; the date and the emblems all point toward an annual event.

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with either view. While I tend toward annual, I suspect that 1st Century Christians partook a bit more frequently.


"Our minds don't control our beliefs, our beliefs control our minds."
"A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking."
"Buying into someone's religious, philosophical, or political teachings is the point where you've decided to allow them to do your thinking for you."
05-12-2010 05:58 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
ablebodiedman
Member


Posts: 3,641
Group: Registered Plus
Joined: Apr 2007
Status: Offline
Post: #12
RE: 1 Corinthians 11:20-22

JWHVACR Wrote:
I understand, and history weighs heavily in favor of a weekly celebration. But at the Witnesses point out; the date and the emblems all point toward an annual event.

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with either view. While I tend toward annual, I suspect that 1st Century Christians partook a bit more frequently.


JWHVACR,

The original passover immediately preceded the Israelites departure for the promised land.

The scriptures indicate that we have a future hope where this will once again happen.

Some will be taken along and others left behind.

Jesus Christs sacrifice happened on the annual passover.

There is therefore good reason to believe that the value of that sacrifice will be used for some to obtain that very similar future hope.

Will that future hope occur on an anniversary of the original passover date?

There are also many who believe that we are in a wilderness condition right now with the hope of entering that promised land.


Hosea 2:14
“‘Therefore here I am prevailing upon her, and I will cause her to go into the wilderness, and I will speak to her heart. 15 And I will give her her vineyards from then onward, and the low plain of A´chor as an entrance to hope; and she will certainly answer there as in the days of her youth and as in the day of her coming up out of the land of Egypt. 16 And it must occur in that day,’ is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘that you will call [me] My husband, and you will no longer call me My owner.’

Luke 17
34 I tell YOU, In that night two [men] will be in one bed; the one will be taken along, but the other will be abandoned. 35 There will be two [women] grinding at the same mill; the one will be taken along, but the other will be abandoned.” 36 —— 37 So in response they said to him: “Where, Lord?” He said to them: “Where the body is, there also the eagles will be gathered together.”


For this reason I do believe that the annual passover date holds great significance for the future event that is a direct result of Jesus Christs sacrifice.

When celebrating the lords evening meal this is what I memorialize.


In Christ

abe


the spiritual man examines all things

Jehovah's Witnesses - The Bible Report
The Unforgivable Sin
05-13-2010 12:38 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
BethelBoy
Member


Posts: 1,169
Group: Registered Plus
Joined: Jan 2008
Status: Offline
Post: #13
RE: 1 Corinthians 11:20-22

Here are 2 verses to consider.

Acts 20:7
Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight.

( Check out the words changed in the NWT )
7 On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to have a meal, Paul began discoursing to them, as he was going to depart the next day; and he prolonged his speech until midnight.

Klasia (to break ) Arton ( bread )

1 Cor 11
25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”
26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death till He comes.


( I would ask is once a year often? )

BB:happyheart::heartbeat::happyheart:


http://www.uplook.org
http://www.voicesforchrist.org/order.html

Jesus sent him away, saying, 39 Return to your own house, and tell what great things God has done for you. And he went his way and proclaimed throughout the whole city what great things Jesus had done for him.

05-14-2010 08:01 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Derek
Member


Posts: 1,075
Group: Registered
Joined: May 2008
Status: Offline
Post: #14
RE: 1 Corinthians 11:20-22

Hi Wayne,
Once a year is certainly not "often".

It is all part of the process, intended or more likely unintended, that separated members of the WTS from their Lord and Master.

BethelBoy Wrote:
Here are 2 verses to consider.

Acts 20:7
Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight.

( Check out the words changed in the NWT )
7 On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to have a meal, Paul began discoursing to them, as he was going to depart the next day; and he prolonged his speech until midnight.

Klasia (to break ) Arton ( bread )

1 Cor 11
25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”
26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death till He comes.


( I would ask is once a year often? )

BB:happyheart::heartbeat::happyheart:



We go in faith, our own great weakness feeling,
And needing more each day Thy grace to know:
Yet from our hearts a song of triumph pealing,
“We rest on Thee, and in Thy Name we go.”
05-14-2010 09:31 AM
Find all posts by this user
BethelBoy
Member


Posts: 1,169
Group: Registered Plus
Joined: Jan 2008
Status: Offline
Post: #15
RE: 1 Corinthians 11:20-22

I agree Derek, it's that gnostic slant " secret knowledge" surfacing in another area.

Wayne



Derek Wrote:
Hi Wayne,
Once a year is certainly not "often".

It is all part of the process, intended or more likely unintended, that separated members of the WTS from their Lord and Master.

BethelBoy Wrote:
Here are 2 verses to consider.

Acts 20:7
Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight.

( Check out the words changed in the NWT )
7 On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to have a meal, Paul began discoursing to them, as he was going to depart the next day; and he prolonged his speech until midnight.

Klasia (to break ) Arton ( bread )

1 Cor 11
25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”
26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death till He comes.


( I would ask is once a year often? )

BB:happyheart::heartbeat::happyheart:


http://www.uplook.org
http://www.voicesforchrist.org/order.html

Jesus sent him away, saying, 39 Return to your own house, and tell what great things God has done for you. And he went his way and proclaimed throughout the whole city what great things Jesus had done for him.

05-14-2010 05:56 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Pages (2): « First [1] 2 Next > Last »

View a Printable Version
Send this Thread to a Friend
Subscribe to this Thread | Add Thread to Favorites

Forum Jump: