Latest News: The Great Trubulation


Pages (17): « First < Previous 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 Next > Last »
Who Believes in Evolution?
Author Message
Bangalore
Member


Posts: 6,131
Group: Registered Plus
Joined: Dec 2006
Status: Offline
Post: #16
RE: Who Believes in Evolution?

World Statistics By Country.



http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/...29204.html


This chart depicts the public acceptance of evolution theory in 34 countries in 2005. Adults were asked to respond to the statement: "Human beings, as we know them, developed from earlier species of animals." The percentage of respondents who believed this to be true is marked in blue; those who believed it to be false, in red; and those who were not sure, in yellow.

A study of several such surveys taken since 1985 has found that the United States ranks next to last in acceptance of evolution theory among nations polled. Researchers point out that the number of Americans who are uncertain about the theory's validity has increased over the past 20 years.

Warm Christian Love
Bangalore


"While producing people who were outwardly moral, they subverted the essential qualities of humility, compassion and mercy." - Raymond Franz
http://www.spiritualbrother.blogspot.com/
12-21-2010 09:55 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Bangalore
Member


Posts: 6,131
Group: Registered Plus
Joined: Dec 2006
Status: Offline
Post: #17
RE: Who Believes in Evolution?



Warm Christian Love
Bangalore


"While producing people who were outwardly moral, they subverted the essential qualities of humility, compassion and mercy." - Raymond Franz
http://www.spiritualbrother.blogspot.com/
12-21-2010 09:59 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Seraphim
Member


Posts: 2,075
Group: Registered
Joined: Jan 2007
Status: Offline
Post: #18
RE: Who Believes in Evolution?

Those graphs are absolutely fascinating. I guess the fact that we were are all mostly x and current Jehovah`s Witnesses on here explains why I am in the minority. It shows how much being a JW influences us still even if we think it doesn't anymore. Thanks Bangalore for posting those.

12-21-2010 10:29 AM
Find all posts by this user
wolfie
Member


Posts: 2,731
Group: Registered Plus
Joined: Dec 2006
Status: Offline
Post: #19
RE: Who Believes in Evolution?

I don't quite agree with that take on this brian. I was Baptist before a witness and never ever thought evolution was the way to go. I would interpret the chart actually as a trend to turning away from God-- as the entire world seems to be doing-- more than enlightenment. I believe in creation and always have....


''In the midst of winter I finally learned that in me there was an invincible summer.'' Albert Camus

''live simply, speak kindly, love unconditionally''
12-21-2010 10:37 AM
Find all posts by this user
Seraphim
Member


Posts: 2,075
Group: Registered
Joined: Jan 2007
Status: Offline
Post: #20
RE: Who Believes in Evolution?

wolfie Wrote:
I don't quite agree with that take on this brian. I was Baptist before a witness and never ever thought evolution was the way to go. I would interpret the chart actually as a trend to turning away from God-- as the entire world seems to be doing-- more than enlightenment. I believe in creation and always have....


I'm not placing any value judgement on it wolfie. You might be the exception that proves the rule, or perhaps you became a JW because it reflected some views you already held, but the graph seems to clearly show a correlation to views, rightly or wrongly in this area and the being a JW.

The belief in evolution doesn't correlate with a turning away or turning to God because many religious people believe in evolution as the graph shows. What does indicate a turning away from God in this case is when an ideology get superimposed on evolution in a specific way. The ideology of atheism sometimes uses evolution as a way to argue that one should be compelled to atheism. Such an argument is not logical because science cannot disprove the existence of God. If for the sake or argument evolution is true, it in no way disproves God because God could have done it that way. On the same token when religious people attempt to prove the existence of God using science they fail, because God is not scientifically testable. God is above science hence cannot be tested by it.

12-21-2010 10:56 AM
Find all posts by this user
wolfie
Member


Posts: 2,731
Group: Registered Plus
Joined: Dec 2006
Status: Offline
Post: #21
RE: Who Believes in Evolution?

I think this is a difficult discussion brian. Most creationists have a hard time to blend the two ideas. My situation is that I am more of a literalist than alot of people. I grew up loving the BIble and loving Bible people. I never even knew people had the ideas they have until I got a computer and began reading the thoughts out there and some of them kind of stunned me. I did some research one time on the flood and if was a real flood that covered the entire world or a local flood that affected only Noah's area and the subject was such a heated one. Both sides fought for the position tooth and nail. I do know here that evolution is taught in the school system as a truth and religion is off limits. The teachers in my school district are all teaching the kids that evolution is fact and that God and the Bible are a myth. That is why I wonder if evolution isn't becoming a more promiment idea. That is what I refer to as a turning away from God.
Alot may have happened since I left the Baptist church but at one time they fought to keep the teaching of evolution out of the schools because it was presented to the kids as scientific fact and not a theory and then it was proposed that you could teach each side equally and now only evolution is taught while religion is off limits...

my personal belief is that adaptation is how God has shown his love of his creatures and that it is an amazing thing as opposed to full blown evolution. I believe in the creation as laid out in Genesis and that it is all for the glory of God but within that there is room for movement.... :heartbeat:

''for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD
as the waters cover the sea.'' Isaiah 11:9

Much much smarter people than me have gotten into this discussion tho and normally it doesn't go anywhere. I try very hard to never let a subject become divisive but always remain in Christ's peace and his love :heartbeat:

blessings to you brother brian :heartbeat:


''In the midst of winter I finally learned that in me there was an invincible summer.'' Albert Camus

''live simply, speak kindly, love unconditionally''
12-21-2010 11:17 AM
Find all posts by this user
wolfie
Member


Posts: 2,731
Group: Registered Plus
Joined: Dec 2006
Status: Offline
Post: #22
RE: Who Believes in Evolution?

ps...I will say also regarding Jehobah's Witnesses no one believes more strongly and holds their views more tightly than they do. It wouldn't be possible for worldly or secular views to infiltrate them as in other religions where things are a bit more relaxed. I was shocked to learn how many Catholics don't believe in the Bible to begin with--including the priests--so it is of no surprise to me that witnesses reject every aspect of evolution....


''In the midst of winter I finally learned that in me there was an invincible summer.'' Albert Camus

''live simply, speak kindly, love unconditionally''
12-21-2010 11:23 AM
Find all posts by this user
Seraphim
Member


Posts: 2,075
Group: Registered
Joined: Jan 2007
Status: Offline
Post: #23
RE: Who Believes in Evolution?

Its a problem for sure wolfie.

There is allot of propaganda out there on this subject. The whole idea that evolution is taught in schools as a fact, but religion a myth is based on a fundamentally false view. Religion and science are fundamentally different disciplines. Science seeks to explain natural phenomena in the natural physical world via testing, hypothesis, theory and results. Religion tries to tell not how things work but what they mean. God and Gods actions cannot be naturally explained because he is outside of what is natural and hence science. The two things should never be presented as in competition because they are not on same playing field. Otherwise it would be like Jesus saying to the crowd that God makes it rain, but then switching to an `alternative view` on the grounds of fairness and then proceeding to teach a science lecture on how water molecules interact with the atmosphere and gravity, or how the elements that make them up were produced in supernova. Both are true but both are not in competition. Those who keep telling us they are are ether atheists like Richard Dawkins or religious people who believe that science proves Gods existence.

12-21-2010 11:55 AM
Find all posts by this user
Seraphim
Member


Posts: 2,075
Group: Registered
Joined: Jan 2007
Status: Offline
Post: #24
RE: Who Believes in Evolution?

wolfie Wrote:
ps...I will say also regarding Jehobah's Witnesses no one believes more strongly and holds their views more tightly than they do. It wouldn't be possible for worldly or secular views to infiltrate them as in other religions where things are a bit more relaxed. I was shocked to learn how many Catholics don't believe in the Bible to begin with--including the priests--so it is of no surprise to me that witnesses reject every aspect of evolution....


It may be that those Catholics who don't believe in the whole bible have not been taught that its perfectly OK to take some parts symbolical and metaphysically. After all most don`t believe that God makes it rain as Christ literally stated. Metaphorically I understand what he meant and agree with him, but I don`t think God individually fashions each drop and then hurls it down. If someone has told them in the past that they have to choose between science and religion or that they have to choose between a literal or symbolic interpretation it is no wonder they have problems.

12-21-2010 12:04 PM
Find all posts by this user
wolfie
Member


Posts: 2,731
Group: Registered Plus
Joined: Dec 2006
Status: Offline
Post: #25
RE: Who Believes in Evolution?

i call myself a literalist but I don't go so far as to think GOd tends to every rain drop individually --just that he set the laws in motion.
I worked with a woman I am convinced at heart is actually an athiest but married a man very much a big deal in the local catholic church here. He plays the organ and sings and directs the choir. She adopted the catholic faith after marrying him to please him but did so after talking to the priest who told her he also believes the Bible stories are fables and fairytales. She now does Bible readings and teaches. I find that so ironic and her true feelings are very much a secret. She is no more a catholic than the man in the moon but she plays the game to keep her husband happy. Not everyone who says they are of a certain faith are on the same page by any means...


''In the midst of winter I finally learned that in me there was an invincible summer.'' Albert Camus

''live simply, speak kindly, love unconditionally''
12-21-2010 12:13 PM
Find all posts by this user
Seraphim
Member


Posts: 2,075
Group: Registered
Joined: Jan 2007
Status: Offline
Post: #26
RE: Who Believes in Evolution?

Well perhaps this women will start to believe in Christ and God and salvation through him without having to believe all the stories in the bible are literally true. I've met many atheists who were much more moral and nicer people than some Christians I have known and im sure they are closer to salvation as a result.

Some people think that Christ's parable of the rich man an Lazarus is a literal depiction of heaven and hell, and others believe there was a talking snake in a literal garden called Eden. One might categorise both as a fable or non literal story. The way I look at it is the meaning is far more important that the literalism of the story. Only some things require literal understanding such as the existence and identity of Jesus.

12-21-2010 12:34 PM
Find all posts by this user
NewTruth
Member


Posts: 1,053
Group: Registered Plus
Joined: Apr 2007
Status: Offline
Post: #27
RE: Who Believes in Evolution?

Melancholymuse Wrote:
I totally agree with you on the mutations thing; no one has ever discovered a mutation that actually benefited the organism.

On top of that, science has shown solid evidence that if a genetic mutation is allowed to replicate it either kills the organism or fixes itself back to a normal state -- evolution is essentially impossible.


Yes, a mutation works it's way out of the family line, and gets weaker with every generation, not stronger. Or it renders the being not able to survive in a nature environment. When a wild rose is mutated to form large gorgeous roses, and then it is placed back in the wild, eventually, it will go back to small wild roses again. A mutation would have to get stronger and stronger to evolve into another form, thus making this theory impossible..

Seraphim, you didn't give us your viewpoint yet, I don't think. Do you want to explain? Do you think it happened from some other way, besides favorable mutations? Carl Sagan said "favorable mutations".

12-21-2010 03:05 PM
Find all posts by this user
Seraphim
Member


Posts: 2,075
Group: Registered
Joined: Jan 2007
Status: Offline
Post: #28
RE: Who Believes in Evolution?

It would take allot to explain my whole view but I do think mutations play a role in evolution, as well as others biological mechanisms.

It might be good for me to point out that mutations are simply variations in the DNA when copied. They are not defined as changes that are harmful or good. There are just changes. Sometimes its due to mistakes in the copying process when sperm or eggs are produced within a human or animal. Children are always more than a both parents spliced together genetically speaking. This is why all children are different from each other and past generations. The differences are infinite because the genes that produced all children are not limited or set in stone. They mutate.

So if one accepts that all animals and humans replicate themselves as principle one, and we accept that principle two is that there is always variation in the offspring, we have gradual change over time. What works is kept and what doesn't is lost. The question is not why does life change over time but why wouldn't it? A photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy changes over time, degrading as it goes in the case of photocopies, but its because of change in each successive generation. If it remained intact and didn't change after a certain degree of change, we would conclude someone was cheating.

As example of a beneficial mutation that is quite recent, which was helpful and was therefore kept in humans in certain populations, was a mutation on chromosome 2. This means that lactose production doesn't shut down after weaning. So milk can be used as a food source until adulthood. Normally in some populations, and in the past with all humans, after the children stopped breast feeding the ability to drink milk stops. Its an advantage to be able to benefit from milk during ones whole life in a society that farms. Hence the mutation has been kept, and has become more common over a few thousand years because those who can benefit tend to survive better and pass on this mutation to offspring. Especially in cold climates is this the case where sunlight which produces vitamin D and high quality food is less available. Hence this ability is much more common in colder climates. The mutation is getting stronger not weaker.

Its just one example of a very recent beneficial mutation in humans.

12-21-2010 05:00 PM
Find all posts by this user
Beau Wetini
Me and my boy at the beach!


Posts: 2,194
Group: Registered Plus
Joined: Aug 2010
Status: Offline
Post: #29
RE: Who Believes in Evolution?

Seraphim Wrote:
Does that mean you don't believe in biological evolution from a single ancestor Beau?



Honestly, im not really sure. Im a raving Liberal, so im game for everything! :D

I believe in Divinely guided evolution - God had an end point in mind - a purpose and all things slowly but surely gravitate towards this purpose.

Although, my understanding probably leans more towards a New Age slant....

For me, whatever it really is - and no matter how many ways there are to interpret it - it doesnt have any bearing on my understanding of God, His purposes, His Will, Jesus etc. Because whatever way one looks at it, nothing changes what Jesus has done for us, and will do in the future to come.

Cheers bro! :friends::friends::friends:


LIVE THE KINGDOM NOW!!


12-21-2010 06:24 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
gogh
Participator


Posts: 3,239
Group: Moderator
Joined: Dec 2006
Status: Offline
Post: #30
RE: Who Believes in Evolution?

A topic on the subject about (the theory of) evolution, imo, is controversial. Promoting a theory as fact, imo, suppresses truth. Inspired scripture makes much reference to "creation" and "things made", etc....Did our Master not demonstrate creation (indirectly),by means of holy spirit, performing miracles...including changing water into wine, feeding thousands with few fish and bread?

Asking the question, "Who Believes in Evolution?" is imo, deceptive, as it presents evolution as something other than an (ungodly) theory of man, imo.; therefore the name of this topic is not suited under the topic category "Science & Archeology". Maybe there should be a category of "Controversial Fantasy"....imo. (no grin)


Romans 1:18...

"For God's wrath is being revealed from heaven against all the ungodliness and wickedness of those who in their wickedness suppress the truth.
For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God himself has made it plain to them.

For since the creation of the world his invisible attributes-his eternal power and divine nature-have been understood and observed by what he made, so that people are without excuse.

For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him. Instead, their thoughts turned to worthless things, and their ignorant hearts were darkened.
Though claiming to be wise, they became fools
and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images that looked like mortal human beings, birds, four-footed animals, and reptiles.
For this reason, God gave them over to impurity to follow the lusts of their hearts and to dishonor their bodies with one another.
They exchanged God's truth for a lie and worshipped and served the creation rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen."

Our Lord and Shepherd Jesus clearly expresses creation (male and female were made):

Matthew 19:3...

"Some Pharisees came to him in order to test him. They asked, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason?"
He answered them, "Haven't you read that the one who made them at the beginning 'made them male and female'
and said, 'That is why a man will leave his father and mother and be united with his wife, and the two will become one flesh'?
So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, man must never separate."
They asked him, "Why, then, did Moses order us 'to give a certificate of divorce and divorce her'?"
He said to them, "It was because of your hardness of heart that Moses allowed you to divorce your wives. But from the beginning it was not this way.
I tell you that whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery."
His disciples said to him, "If that is the relationship of a man with his wife, it's not worth getting married!"
But he said to them, "Not everyone can accept this saying, except those to whom celibacy has been granted.
For some men are celibate from birth, while others are celibate because they have been made that way by others. Still others are celibate because they have made themselves that way for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let anyone accept this who can."

Creation/being made, denotes willful purpose and order. YHVH is a God of order. Where, ever, in scripture is disorder mentioned as something beneficial?

A scripture mentioning disorder:

James 3:7...

"For all kinds of animals, birds, reptiles, and sea creatures can be or have been tamed by the human species,
but no one can tame the tongue. It is an uncontrollable evil filled with deadly poison.
With it we bless the Lord and Father, and with it we curse those who are made in God's likeness.
From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. It should not be like this, my brothers!
A spring cannot pour both fresh and brackish water from the same opening, can it?
My brothers, a fig tree cannot produce olives, nor a grapevine figs, can it? Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water.
Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good life that his works are done in humility born of wisdom.
But if you have bitter jealousy and rivalry in your hearts, stop boasting and lying against the truth.
That kind of wisdom does not come from above. No, it is worldly, self-centered, and demonic.
For wherever jealousy and rivalry exist, there is disorder and every kind of evil.
However, the wisdom that comes from above is first of all pure, then peace-loving, gentle, willing to yield, full of compassion and good fruits, and without a trace of partiality or hypocrisy.
And a harvest of righteousness is grown from the seed of peace planted by peacemakers."

note: ..." ...a fig tree cannot produce olives...nor a grapevine figs" etc......not even in a thousand, million, million years can a fig tree produce olives!!!! Why? Because inspired scripture says so...(grin, this time).

:coffeeread:


"......."This is my Son, whom I have chosen. Keep listening to him!" Luke 9:35
12-21-2010 06:31 PM
Find all posts by this user
Pages (17): « First < Previous 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 Next > Last »

View a Printable Version
Send this Thread to a Friend
Subscribe to this Thread | Add Thread to Favorites

Forum Jump: