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Christ's Mediatorship
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Sean T
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Christ's Mediatorship

Hi everyone,

About a year ago, I decided to examine the societies insight book that discusses Christs Mediatorship and the new covenant. I read the section under 'Mediator' and read all scriptures refered to by the society so that I could clear up once and for all my confusion around this teaching.

For years I have been confused as to why Jesus is only Mediator to the 144000; and not to the rest of his followers? yet I have come across certain scriptures that indicated that he is indeed mediator to all men. For example the scripture at 1 Timothy 2:5 (NIV) says:

'For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus'.

I therefor decided to go through this subject in the insight book, writing out every scripture quoted, as well as writing down some comments. What I found was very interesting and truly insightful.

The society define 'Mediator' as follows (as mentioned in the insight book vol ii). 'One who interposes between two parties at variance to reconcile them; an intertercessor, an intermediary agent, or
go-between'
.

I then read everything under the sub headings

'Blood requirement for covenant validation'

'The Mediator of the Law Covenant' (ie Moses)

'Validation of the law covenant' ([b]ie by means of shed blood/sacrafice
)

'Inaugaration of the Priesthood'

'Parrallels to Mediatorship'
[/b](ie where Jesus is likened to Moses as Mediator between God and his People, except that Jesus sacrifice was much greater then the scarifice of sheep and bulls - Heb 9:18-28
)

'Those for whome Christ is Mediator'

'Blessings to mankind in general'

In defining what a Covenant is? I took the following from Brother Perimeno's site

First of all we need to understand what a covenant is as presented in the Bible. According to the online WordReference.com English Dictionary a covenant is “an agreement between God and his people in which God makes certain promises and requires certain behavior from them in return.”

Similarly, Insight on the Scriptures describes a covenant as “an agreement between two or more persons to do or refrain from doing some act; a compact; a contract. . . In effect, any promise made by Jehovah is a covenant; it is certain to be carried out; it can be relied on with confidence for its fulfillment. (Heb 6:18) A covenant is in force as long as the terms of it are operative and the obligation to perform rests on one or both parties. The results or the blessings brought about by the covenant may continue, even forever.” —it-1 p. 520 Covenant.


http://perimeno.ca/Letters_0710_NewCovenant.htm


Having read everything in context with the surrounding scriptures, I came to the following conclusions.

Firstly, most of the scriptures were very clear to me; there were however some that were not so clear. But what I found made absolute sense as to what the scriptures were saying.

I found two important things that were put in place when Jesus became Mediator of the new covenant (agreement between God and his people).

1. Jesus is now Mediator to all Christians in that they can approach YHWH (through Jesus) for the forgiveness of sins. This makes complete sense as it allows us to approach Jehovah through prayer. 1Tim 2:5; Heb 4:14-16; Heb 7:24,25; 1 John 2:2, Acts 4:12

2. Being Mediator of the new covenant also meant that certain ones would be chosen to serve alongside Jesus as Kings and Priests for a thousand years (in the new age to come) under Kingdom rule. The Holy Spirit lets such ones know they have been chosen. Rom 8:15-17; Rev 5:9,10;

I could go into all the scriptures, but it would take me all night. My research into this by simply using Gods word has clarified for me exactly what Jesus Mediatorship means to all men and women in relation to the new covenant that was established. It now makes perfect sense to me and has cleared away the confusion I have had for such a long time. I am now glad to know that Jesus is my Mediator, and to all of mankind who sincerely repent of their sins and turn back to God.

Sean


Micah 6:8
He has showed you, O man, what is good.
And what does YHWH require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God.


02-04-2011 07:00 PM
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isomam
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Post: #2
RE: Christ's Mediatorship

Sean T Wrote:
Hi everyone,

About a year ago, I decided to examine the societies insight book that discusses Christs Mediatorship and the new covenant. I read the section under 'Mediator' and read all scriptures refered to by the society so that I could clear up once and for all my confusion around this teaching.

For years I have been confused as to why Jesus is only Mediator to the 144000; and not to the rest of his followers? yet I have come across certain scriptures that indicated that he is indeed mediator to all men. For example the scripture at 1 Timothy 2:5 (NIV) says:

'For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus'.

I therefor decided to go through this subject in the insight book, writing out every scripture quoted, as well as writing down some comments. What I found was very interesting and truly insightful.

The society define 'Mediator' as follows (as mentioned in the insight book vol ii). 'One who interposes between two parties at variance to reconcile them; an intertercessor, an intermediary agent, or
go-between'
.

I then read everything under the sub headings

'Blood requirement for covenant validation'

'The Mediator of the Law Covenant' (ie Moses)

'Validation of the law covenant' ([b]ie by means of shed blood/sacrafice
)

'Inaugaration of the Priesthood'

'Parrallels to Mediatorship'
[/b](ie where Jesus is likened to Moses as Mediator between God and his People, except that Jesus sacrifice was much greater then the scarifice of sheep and bulls - Heb 9:18-28
)

'Those for whome Christ is Mediator'

'Blessings to mankind in general'

In defining what a Covenant is? I took the following from Brother Perimeno's site

First of all we need to understand what a covenant is as presented in the Bible. According to the online WordReference.com English Dictionary a covenant is “an agreement between God and his people in which God makes certain promises and requires certain behavior from them in return.”

Similarly, Insight on the Scriptures describes a covenant as “an agreement between two or more persons to do or refrain from doing some act; a compact; a contract. . . In effect, any promise made by Jehovah is a covenant; it is certain to be carried out; it can be relied on with confidence for its fulfillment. (Heb 6:18) A covenant is in force as long as the terms of it are operative and the obligation to perform rests on one or both parties. The results or the blessings brought about by the covenant may continue, even forever.” —it-1 p. 520 Covenant.


http://perimeno.ca/Letters_0710_NewCovenant.htm


Having read everything in context with the surrounding scriptures, I came to the following conclusions.

Firstly, most of the scriptures were very clear to me; there were however some that were not so clear. But what I found made absolute sense as to what the scriptures were saying.

I found two important things that were put in place when Jesus became Mediator of the new covenant (agreement between God and his people).

1. Jesus is now Mediator to all Christians in that they can approach YHWH (through Jesus) for the forgiveness of sins. This makes complete sense as it allows us to approach Jehovah through prayer. 1Tim 2:5; Heb 4:14-16; Heb 7:24,25; 1 John 2:2, Acts 4:12

2. Being Mediator of the new covenant also meant that certain ones would be chosen to serve alongside Jesus as Kings and Priests for a thousand years (in the new age to come) under Kingdom rule. The Holy Spirit lets such ones know they have been chosen. Rom 8:15-17; Rev 5:9,10;

I could go into all the scriptures, but it would take me all night. My research into this by simply using Gods word has clarified for me exactly what Jesus Mediatorship means to all men and women in relation to the new covenant that was established. It now makes perfect sense to me and has cleared away the confusion I have had for such a long time. I am now glad to know that Jesus is my Mediator, and to all of mankind who sincerely repent of their sins and turn back to God.

Sean


you have been busy, sean. :ok: interesting subject matter, isn't it? ;) it is so hard to untangle our thinking from watchtower theology, which we ultimately come to understand is sooo agendized and misleading.

even more broadly than you stated, the new covenant is really between god and mankind (all of 'em), -- simple, huh? -- with jesus serving as mediator, as you mentioned. most of mankind may not even know about (or be in a position to take advantage of) the blessings of the new covenant until the millenium. so, let's keep our minds (and hearts) wide open to the prospect of so many positive changes in our human race. :thumbup:


Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. Of these I am foremost.--1 Timothy 1:15.

Above all things, have INTENSE Love for one another.--1 Peter 4:8.

Sanctify the Christ as Lord in your hearts. ... Hold a good conscience.--1 Peter 3:15, 16.

TRUTH IS SIMPLE.
02-04-2011 08:29 PM
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COMankind
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RE: Christ's Mediatorship

Great research Sean.

This is indeed one of those points where the light goes on.

To answer 1tim 2, the WT treats the mediation like a legal contract...wherein the first party approaches the second party, but is representative of a third party by proxy of the first.

It really takes the love out of the gesture, and puts the GB in a position as man's mediator...without saying it straight out.


philia, COMankind

"The tent of God is with mankind" - Rev 21:3

02-05-2011 03:08 AM
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man hu
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RE: Christ's Mediatorship

Quote:
Similarly, Insight on the Scriptures describes a covenant as “an agreement between two or more persons to do or refrain from doing some act; a compact; a contract. . . In effect, any promise made by Jehovah is a covenant; it is certain to be carried out; it can be relied on with confidence for its fulfillment. (Heb 6:18) A covenant is in force as long as the terms of it are operative and the obligation to perform rests on one or both parties. The results or the blessings brought about by the covenant may continue, even forever.” —it-1 p. 520 Covenant.



This is not true.
The WT fudges the issue deliberately. They talk rubbish about a 'unilateral covenant' instead of a promise.

Why do they do this?

In Luke 22 Jesus did two things. He inaugurated the New Covenant with the bread and wine in verse 20, and he made a promise for a kingdom in verse 29.
Unfortunately they have taken two different Greek words diatheke and diatithemai and translated them as one word in English.....covenant.
If the New Covenant included a clause saying that those included would also be on thrones with Jesus, then Jesus would not have needed to make a separate promise, but if you translate the two different words as covenant, then you can pretend that the thrones and the New Covenant are part of the same package and then you have excluded most of the witnesses from their God given relationship through the New Covenant.

Differences between a Promise and a Covenant
A Promise from Jehovah is more powerful than a covenant.
It has no time limitations and carries no burdens.
It does not involve anything being done by the receiver of the promise.

A Covenant can, and often does have a time limitation on it.
It may involve some negative clauses.
Obviously there are requirements from both sides.
It will involve blood.
The Hebrew expression is to 'cut a covenant'.

Due to his kindness to Lot, allowing him first choice of any of the land, Jehovah promised Abraham that all the land he could see would be his and his descendants. No ifs, buts no problems.
Then Abraham asked for a covenant for the very same thing.
This time he was told his descendants would go into to slavery and to ratify the covenant Abraham had to take several animals and cut them in half


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02-05-2011 09:42 AM
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Beau Wetini
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Post: #5
RE: Christ's Mediatorship

Christ as Mediator??

What nonsense! Only the Watchtower is the Mediator! :huh::crybaby::D


LIVE THE KINGDOM NOW!!


02-05-2011 10:16 AM
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COMankind
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Post: #6
RE: Christ's Mediatorship

To Man hu's point, it IS referred to as a gift.
The contingency is that someone needs to accept the gift, but that's it.

The New Covenant removed law and replaced it with this:
"This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people." Heb 8:10

It is IMPOSSIBLE for man to broker, legislate, judge or even review these laws. They are part of DNA...which was no doubt there the whole time (Noah, Enoch, Abel) This is a highly individualized relationship.

The covenant establishes a parent / child relationship between God and each man. Any gifts exchanged - our charity and mercy - Gods holy spirit and heavenly reward - are out of love for one another. It is the basis for a family.

---addendum--

"I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins." rom 11:25-27 - This was directed to the Roman congregation which was filled with Gentiles. They were being instructed that the new covenant was going to free the Israelites. Meaning the israelites would now have a law written on hearts, just like the Gentiles. This is why Paul rebuked any trace of law btw.

""This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many," he said to them." - mark 14:24 - note that jesus did not say all mankind.

Hebrews was a letter directed to the Jews only.

"Therefore, brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman." - gal 4:31 - really, all of Gal 4 is applicable, comparing the two covenants to a slave and free woman. Paul was saying here that the slave woman was Israel, and Jesus gave those Israelites a new mother. But the Gentiles had no law, therefore they were not accountable to sin, and were never slaves by law at any point.

In other words, man has always had a law written on hearts, the opportunity to serve God individually. The Israelites were freed from bondage, and now we know that no form of Israel can save us....we need Jesus instead.

- that's my take :coffeeread:


philia, COMankind

"The tent of God is with mankind" - Rev 21:3

02-05-2011 11:23 AM
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BruisedReed
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RE: Christ's Mediatorship

Good afternoon all ... :hibye:

I thought I would like to add a wee bit of something to the pot if I may ... it kind of goes along with Vicky's thoughts ... :giverose: :chef:

The scripture at Luke 22:20 speaks of the 'new covenant' ...

” 20 Also, the cup in the same way after they had the evening meal, he saying: “This cup means the new covenant by virtue of my blood, which is to be poured out in YOUR behalf.

Then later down in Luke 22:29 ...

29 and I make a covenant with YOU, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom,

I used the new world here to show something ... hopefully ... :blush:

In both of these verses the 'covenant' is used ... and yet when you look at strong's different Greek words are in the texts ...

In Luke 22:20 ...

G1242 διαθήκη

diathēkē dee-ath-ay'-kay


From G1303; properly a disposition, that is, (specifically) a contract (especially a devisory will): - covenant, testament.


And now if we look at the word in Luke 22:29 ...

G1303 διατίθεμαι

diatithemai dee-at-ith'-em-ahee


Middle voice from G1223 and G5087; to put apart, that is, (figuratively) dispose (by assignment, compact or bequest): - appoint, make, testator.

G5087 τίθημι

tithēmi tith'-ay-mee


A prolonged form of a primary word θέω theō (which is used only as an alternate in certain tenses); to place (in the widest application, literally and figuratively; properly in a passive or horizontal posture, and thus different from G2476, which properly denotes an upright and active position, while G2749 is properly reflexive and utterly prostrate): - + advise, appoint, bow, commit, conceive, give, X kneel down, lay (aside, down, up), make, ordain, purpose, put, set (forth), settle, sink down.


Now if we look at how some other Bible's render this verse they say ...

(ASV) and I appoint unto you a kingdom, even as my Father appointed unto me,

(BBE) And I will give you a kingdom as my Father has given one to me,

(CEV) So I will give you the right to rule as kings, just as my Father has given me the right to rule as a king.

(DRB) And I dispose to you, as my Father hath disposed to me, a kingdom;

(LITV) And I appoint a kingdom to you, as My Father appointed to Me,


Okay, now I will try to explain how I see these two differences and what they may mean for us ... :love:

In the first scripture at Luke 22:20 we see that 'A WILL' is being spoken about ... specifically ... as Strong's points out ...

especially a devisory will


When we look up the meaning for 'devisory' or'devise' we find this ...

a. The act of transmitting or giving real property by will.
b. The property or lands so transmitted or given.
2. A will or clause in a will transmitting or giving real property.
To give (property) to another person after one's death: leave1, will. Law bequeath. See give/take/reciprocity, law.


So, 'what' did our Lord 'leave' us when he died ...? :dontknow:

He left us our 'everlasting inheritance'!

He left us our 'propertry' ... the earth ...
He left us 'freedom from sin' ... the ability to live on our property forever!

In scripture this type of covenant needed to have 'blood poured out' from what I can see ... to make it 'binding' and 'legal' ... and in order for any 'will' to come to pass someone or something had to 'die' ...

Jesus filled BOTH requirements ...

And the scriptures CLEARLY say WHY Jesus died and what would be the result ...

Matthew 26:28 ...

for this means my ‘blood of the covenant,’ which is to be poured out in behalf of many for forgiveness of sins.

How essential was it for him to have his 'blood poured out'? :dontknow:

Hebrews 9:22 ...


Yes, nearly all things are cleansed with blood according to the Law, and unless blood is poured out no forgiveness takes place.


Paul also this in regard to the ransom by means of Jesus' shed blood ...

Romans 3:25 ...

God set him forth as an offering for propitiation through faith in his blood. This was in order to exhibit his own righteousness, because he was forgiving the sins that occurred in the past while God was exercising forbearance;

And of course we have the familiar scripture of WHO Christ died for in regarding 'saving or releasing men from sin at 1 John 2:2 ...

And he is a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins, yet not for ours only but also for the whole world’s.

So, our 'inheritance' because of the 'blood covenant' ... the 'will' that Jesus left ... is in a way ...

FREEDOM

Freedom to live on our 'inherited property' ... the 'earth' ... and the freedom to live FOREVER upon it!

Now we come to the so-called 'covenant' arrangement that the NWT speaks about in Luke 22:29 ...

29 and I make a covenant with YOU, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom,

To me instead of this being an 'inheritance' ... a 'gift' from our Lord it would appear from the Greek word to be an entirely different idea ... even the wording in the scripture gives us a clue IMHO ... :blush::read:

In speaking of himself and his Father, Jesus said ... JUST AS MY FATHER HAS MADE A COVENANT WITH ME ...

And when we look at some of the meanings in this verse we see such expressions as ...

assignment
appoint


So wasn't Jesus to be 'appointed' or 'promised' as King of the Kingdom by his Father ... he was 'set aside' by the heavenly creation for this special purpose ... of giving his life for our redemption ... and was 'rewarded' for this by having a special assignment (for technically a high priest could NOT serve in the capacity of king ... and vice versa) and it would appear that this uniqueness was granted his faithful apostles (12) who ALL died a like death (martyr) ... these having the 'assignment' of being 'kings AND priests' ...

This doesn't appear to have been a 'covenant' arrangement ... (like the new coveant which he has will ALL those whom he died for) but rather a SPECIAL KIND OF PROMISE perhaps ... a sort of 'thank you' for what you did for me!?

Yes, in Jesus 'mediatorship' role he had 'one' purpose didn't he ...?

When we look up the meaning of what a 'mediator' does we find ...

a negotiator who acts as a link between parties
mediation - the act of intervening for the purpose of bringing about a settlement
a neutral person, with no decision-making power, who acts as a facilitator assisting the parties in communicating, especially by negotiation


This sounds pretty much like what Jesus says he came for ...:thinking:

1 Timothy 2:5,6 ...

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all—[this is] what is to be witnessed to at its own particular times.

(ASV) 5 For there is one God, one mediator also between God and men, himself man, Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a ransom for all; the testimony to be borne in its own times;

(BBE) 5 For there is one God and one peacemaker between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 Who gave himself as [b]an offering for all[/b]; witness of which was to be given at the right time


Even referring to a 'mediator' being a 'neutral' person between two parties seems to be born out by Jesus own words at John 12:46,47 ...

46 I have come as a light into the world, in order that everyone putting faith in me may not remain in the darkness. 47 But if anyone hears my sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I came, not to judge the world, but to save the world.

Yes, as his role as 'mediator' he had to bring about a RECONCILIATION between two parties ...

GOD
and
MAN


To 'reconcile' means ...

harmonize: bring into consonance or accord
To recreate friendly relationships; To make things compatible or consistent;
accommodate: make (one thing) compatible with (another);
Reconciliation is changing for the better a relationship between two or more persons. Theologically it refers to the change of relationship between God and man.


2 Corinthians 5:20 ...

20 We are therefore ambassadors substituting for Christ, as though God were making entreaty through us. As substitutes for Christ we beg: “Become reconciled to God.”

So, it was only THROUGH Christ's ransom and shed blood ... blood of the covenant ... that we were able to have 'mediation' and 'restoration' in regard our relationship with our heavenly Father ... that we have been granted a 'clean conscience' before God to be able to 'speak' with him in prayer and eventually totally regain the relationship that man once had with God ...

So, perhaps another interesting or thought might be ...

Is Jesus to ALWAYS be our 'mediator' ...?:dontknow:

I think not ... :blush:

Anyway, rambled on enough ... as usual ... sorry ... :giverose:

Great topic Sean ... :nicethread::carrot::rose:

Luv to all ... BR :sheepy: :bouncyhearts:


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02-05-2011 03:31 PM
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COMankind
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Post: #8
RE: Christ's Mediatorship

Great info BR.

Romans 3 actually has great context:

"Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. "

"But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished"

"For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith."

This gives a wonderful picture of the commonality of sin that all people share, and the need for this fulfillment of Law in order to allow these people to move on. Faith in the value of Jesus' sacrifice is critical, because it fulfilled Law through justice - allowing everyone to rely completely on grace and mercy.

The Gentiles did not have an old covenant to replace with a new one. But they did accept this opportunity to 'make amends' with God (atonement) which resolved the Israelites that failed under the Law they carried, as well as resolving the Gentiles who never were given the opportunity to serve the one true God. Both of these paths were opened into one now that Law was fulfilled.

The blood did not 'eliminate sin' but it forgave sin up to that point, created a clean slate, and lifted the burden of law that amplified sin. Jesus was now the Greater Moses, the temple, the sacrifice, the priest - everything in one.

Side note:

1 john 2:2 - Whole world - this is the Greek term 'holos kosmos' - and is used frequently in scripture, such as Romans 1:8, where Paul says that 'your faith is proclaimed throughout the whole world' - and we know that it wasn't being preached in Alaska :) The writers' view of the realm of the world was quite different than ours today.


philia, COMankind

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02-05-2011 08:01 PM
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Anchor
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Post: #9
RE: Christ's Mediatorship

Good job Bruised Reed. You covered many Scriptures very well.

If we notice also, when reading Revelation 21:5-8 ALL who hope to have Jehovah (Yahweh) as their God, have to conquer.


For this is what God said:

"........" Behold, I am making all things new." And He said to me, It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost. HE WHO OVERCOMES, " (Conquers) "shall inherit these things and I will be his God and he will be my son. But as for the cowardly and unbelieving and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone which is the second death."

And the Holy Spirit through Yeshua said:

"He who overcomes shall thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before His angels. He who has an ear, let him hear what the spirit says to the churches." Rev. 3:5-6

"Blessed are those who wash their robes that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city." Rev. 22:14

"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the Paradise of God." Rev. 2:7

"And he who overcomes and he who keeps my deeds until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations; and he shall rule them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of the potter are broken to pieces as I also have received authority from my Father. And I will give him the morning star." Rev. 2:27-28

"For the LORD gives grace and glory; No good thing does He withhold from those who walk uprightly O LORD of hosts, how blessed is the man who trusts in Thee." Ps. 84:11-12

"This is the way of those who are foolish, and of those after them who approve of their words. As sheep they are appointed for Sheol; Death shall be their shepherd; and the upright shall rule over them in the morning."........." See Psalms 49:13-14

"The righteous man will be glad in the Lord, and will take refuge in Him; and all the upright in heart [b]will glory."[/b] Ps 64:10

"And it was for this He called you through our gospel that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ." 2 Thessalonians 2:14

"The righteous will rejoice when he sees the vengeance; he will wash his feet in the blood of the wicked. And men will say; 'Surely there is a reward for the righteous. Surely there is a God who judges on earth." Psalms 58:10-11


"For the LORD is righteous; The upright will behold His face" Ps 12:7

"And there shall no longer be any curse; and the throne ofGod and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His bond servants shall serve Him; and they shall see His face." Please see Rev.22:1-4

Verse 5: "................"and they shall reign forever and ever"




"The evil will bow down before the good, and the wicked at the gates of the righteous." Proverbs 14:19

"Behold, I will cause those of the synagogue of Satan, who say that they are Jews, and are not, but lie ---behold, I will make them to come and bow down at your feet, and to know that I have loved you." Rev 3:9


Blessings, Anchor




BruisedReed Wrote:
Good afternoon all ... :hibye:

I thought I would like to add a wee bit of something to the pot if I may ... it kind of goes along with Vicky's thoughts ... :giverose: :chef:

The scripture at Luke 22:20 speaks of the 'new covenant' ...

” 20 Also, the cup in the same way after they had the evening meal, he saying: “This cup means the new covenant by virtue of my blood, which is to be poured out in YOUR behalf.

Then later down in Luke 22:29 ...

29 and I make a covenant with YOU, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom,

I used the new world here to show something ... hopefully ... :blush:

In both of these verses the 'covenant' is used ... and yet when you look at strong's different Greek words are in the texts ...

In Luke 22:20 ...

G1242 διαθήκη

diathēkē dee-ath-ay'-kay


From G1303; properly a disposition, that is, (specifically) a contract (especially a devisory will): - covenant, testament.


And now if we look at the word in Luke 22:29 ...

G1303 διατίθεμαι

diatithemai dee-at-ith'-em-ahee


Middle voice from G1223 and G5087; to put apart, that is, (figuratively) dispose (by assignment, compact or bequest): - appoint, make, testator.

G5087 τίθημι

tithēmi tith'-ay-mee


A prolonged form of a primary word θέω theō (which is used only as an alternate in certain tenses); to place (in the widest application, literally and figuratively; properly in a passive or horizontal posture, and thus different from G2476, which properly denotes an upright and active position, while G2749 is properly reflexive and utterly prostrate): - + advise, appoint, bow, commit, conceive, give, X kneel down, lay (aside, down, up), make, ordain, purpose, put, set (forth), settle, sink down.


Now if we look at how some other Bible's render this verse they say ...

(ASV) and I appoint unto you a kingdom, even as my Father appointed unto me,

(BBE) And I will give you a kingdom as my Father has given one to me,

(CEV) So I will give you the right to rule as kings, just as my Father has given me the right to rule as a king.

(DRB) And I dispose to you, as my Father hath disposed to me, a kingdom;

(LITV) And I appoint a kingdom to you, as My Father appointed to Me,


Okay, now I will try to explain how I see these two differences and what they may mean for us ... :love:

In the first scripture at Luke 22:20 we see that 'A WILL' is being spoken about ... specifically ... as Strong's points out ...

especially a devisory will


When we look up the meaning for 'devisory' or'devise' we find this ...

a. The act of transmitting or giving real property by will.
b. The property or lands so transmitted or given.
2. A will or clause in a will transmitting or giving real property.
To give (property) to another person after one's death: leave1, will. Law bequeath. See give/take/reciprocity, law.


So, 'what' did our Lord 'leave' us when he died ...? :dontknow:

He left us our 'everlasting inheritance'!

He left us our 'propertry' ... the earth ...
He left us 'freedom from sin' ... the ability to live on our property forever!

In scripture this type of covenant needed to have 'blood poured out' from what I can see ... to make it 'binding' and 'legal' ... and in order for any 'will' to come to pass someone or something had to 'die' ...

Jesus filled BOTH requirements ...

And the scriptures CLEARLY say WHY Jesus died and what would be the result ...

Matthew 26:28 ...

for this means my ‘blood of the covenant,’ which is to be poured out in behalf of many for forgiveness of sins.

How essential was it for him to have his 'blood poured out'? :dontknow:

Hebrews 9:22 ...


Yes, nearly all things are cleansed with blood according to the Law, and unless blood is poured out no forgiveness takes place.


Paul also this in regard to the ransom by means of Jesus' shed blood ...

Romans 3:25 ...

God set him forth as an offering for propitiation through faith in his blood. This was in order to exhibit his own righteousness, because he was forgiving the sins that occurred in the past while God was exercising forbearance;

And of course we have the familiar scripture of WHO Christ died for in regarding 'saving or releasing men from sin at 1 John 2:2 ...

And he is a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins, yet not for ours only but also for the whole world’s.

So, our 'inheritance' because of the 'blood covenant' ... the 'will' that Jesus left ... is in a way ...

FREEDOM

Freedom to live on our 'inherited property' ... the 'earth' ... and the freedom to live FOREVER upon it!

Now we come to the so-called 'covenant' arrangement that the NWT speaks about in Luke 22:29 ...

29 and I make a covenant with YOU, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom,

To me instead of this being an 'inheritance' ... a 'gift' from our Lord it would appear from the Greek word to be an entirely different idea ... even the wording in the scripture gives us a clue IMHO ... :blush::read:

In speaking of himself and his Father, Jesus said ... JUST AS MY FATHER HAS MADE A COVENANT WITH ME ...

And when we look at some of the meanings in this verse we see such expressions as ...

assignment
appoint


So wasn't Jesus to be 'appointed' or 'promised' as King of the Kingdom by his Father ... he was 'set aside' by the heavenly creation for this special purpose ... of giving his life for our redemption ... and was 'rewarded' for this by having a special assignment (for technically a high priest could NOT serve in the capacity of king ... and vice versa) and it would appear that this uniqueness was granted his faithful apostles (12) who ALL died a like death (martyr) ... these having the 'assignment' of being 'kings AND priests' ...

This doesn't appear to have been a 'covenant' arrangement ... (like the new coveant which he has will ALL those whom he died for) but rather a SPECIAL KIND OF PROMISE perhaps ... a sort of 'thank you' for what you did for me!?

Yes, in Jesus 'mediatorship' role he had 'one' purpose didn't he ...?

When we look up the meaning of what a 'mediator' does we find ...

a negotiator who acts as a link between parties
mediation - the act of intervening for the purpose of bringing about a settlement
a neutral person, with no decision-making power, who acts as a facilitator assisting the parties in communicating, especially by negotiation


This sounds pretty much like what Jesus says he came for ...:thinking:

1 Timothy 2:5,6 ...

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all—[this is] what is to be witnessed to at its own particular times.

(ASV) 5 For there is one God, one mediator also between God and men, himself man, Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a ransom for all; the testimony to be borne in its own times;

(BBE) 5 For there is one God and one peacemaker between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 Who gave himself as [b]an offering for all[/b]; witness of which was to be given at the right time


Even referring to a 'mediator' being a 'neutral' person between two parties seems to be born out by Jesus own words at John 12:46,47 ...

46 I have come as a light into the world, in order that everyone putting faith in me may not remain in the darkness. 47 But if anyone hears my sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I came, not to judge the world, but to save the world.

Yes, as his role as 'mediator' he had to bring about a RECONCILIATION between two parties ...

GOD
and
MAN


To 'reconcile' means ...

harmonize: bring into consonance or accord
To recreate friendly relationships; To make things compatible or consistent;
accommodate: make (one thing) compatible with (another);
Reconciliation is changing for the better a relationship between two or more persons. Theologically it refers to the change of relationship between God and man.


2 Corinthians 5:20 ...

20 We are therefore ambassadors substituting for Christ, as though God were making entreaty through us. As substitutes for Christ we beg: “Become reconciled to God.”

So, it was only THROUGH Christ's ransom and shed blood ... blood of the covenant ... that we were able to have 'mediation' and 'restoration' in regard our relationship with our heavenly Father ... that we have been granted a 'clean conscience' before God to be able to 'speak' with him in prayer and eventually totally regain the relationship that man once had with God ...

So, perhaps another interesting or thought might be ...

Is Jesus to ALWAYS be our 'mediator' ...?:dontknow:

I think not ... :blush:

Anyway, rambled on enough ... as usual ... sorry ... :giverose:

Great topic Sean ... :nicethread::carrot::rose:

Luv to all ... BR :sheepy: :bouncyhearts:

03-11-2011 05:38 PM
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Post: #10
RE: Christ's Mediatorship

So true COMandkind.

Very good application of Scripture. :-)

As we know, the Gentiles were invited to also share with the true Israel concerning the son ship all of the promises, and the covenants. (Including the new covenant) Romans 9:4-5 ...Romans 11:1-5 .....Romans 15:8=12 .....Ephesians 2:11-22




COMankind Wrote:
Great info BR.

Romans 3 actually has great context:

"Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. "

"But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished"

"For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith."

This gives a wonderful picture of the commonality of sin that all people share, and the need for this fulfillment of Law in order to allow these people to move on. Faith in the value of Jesus' sacrifice is critical, because it fulfilled Law through justice - allowing everyone to rely completely on grace and mercy.

The Gentiles did not have an old covenant to replace with a new one. But they did accept this opportunity to 'make amends' with God (atonement) which resolved the Israelites that failed under the Law they carried, as well as resolving the Gentiles who never were given the opportunity to serve the one true God. Both of these paths were opened into one now that Law was fulfilled.

The blood did not 'eliminate sin' but it forgave sin up to that point, created a clean slate, and lifted the burden of law that amplified sin. Jesus was now the Greater Moses, the temple, the sacrifice, the priest - everything in one.

Side note:

1 john 2:2 - Whole world - this is the Greek term 'holos kosmos' - and is used frequently in scripture, such as Romans 1:8, where Paul says that 'your faith is proclaimed throughout the whole world' - and we know that it wasn't being preached in Alaska :) The writers' view of the realm of the world was quite different than ours today.

03-11-2011 09:29 PM
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