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Born again?
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e-magine
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Post: #16
RE: Born again?

Hi abe!
You said, "I am thinking that if you can only be born again while alive then the same must be true about judgment.

You can only be judged while alive."

I am thinking this also. when a person is "born again", that is his judgement; he is worthy of being reborn a a spirit person (in the flesh),because of his faith in Christ.
There is no further need of judgement, unless he reneges on that faith. (I believe that may be the unforgivable sin)

Jesus, after resurection, was a spirit person with the ability to be in the flesh at will. It seems that the future 'change in a twinkling of an eye" will bring us also to that point.
Do you believe that that change corresponds with 1 Thess 4:17; meeting the Lord in the air (spirit)
It's interesting that that event is discribed as happening all at the same time. (foot note, NWT large bi).m This would seem to indicate a different event then the indivigual being "born again" :detective:


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Henry Ward Beecher-1872 Preacher of Plymouth Church, Brooklyn, in his home later bought by C.H. Russell.
He is looking at the Brooklyn Bridge,,,, is it the way into, or, out of Brooklyn for you?
02-22-2011 11:41 AM
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ablebodiedman
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Post: #17
RE: Born again?

e-magine,

I think that everybody who is resurrected will be changed.

They will no longer be the exact same kind of human creature we are now.

Matthew 22:29-30
In reply Jesus said to them: “YOU are mistaken, because YOU know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God; 30 for in the resurrection neither do men marry nor are women given in marriage, but are as angels in heaven.


So "changed" or "resurrected" have the same implication.

Born again?


In Christ

abe


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02-22-2011 12:02 PM
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Resolute
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Post: #18
RE: Born again?

I think it would be useful to go back to John chapter 3 and get the context. Especially if we're examining the question of the reborn one's status: alive or dead -- righteous or unrighteous, etc.

John 3:3 reads:

"In answer Jesus said to him: “Most truly I say to you, Unless anyone is born again*, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

The footnote for "is born again" says:

“Is born again.” Lit., “should be generated from above.” Gr., gen·ne·thei′ a′no·then.

I think this goes way beyond simply being resurrected. Here's some related scripture:

"Now that YOU have purified YOUR souls by [YOUR] obedience to the truth with unhypocritical brotherly affection as the result, love one another intensely from the heart. For YOU have been given a new birth, not by corruptible, but by incorruptible [reproductive] seed, through the word of [the] living and enduring God." -- 1 Peter 1:22-23

"Everyone who has been born from God does not carry on sin, because His [reproductive] seed remains in such one, and he cannot practice sin, because he has been born from God." -- 1 John 3:9

While we all sin while still "in the flesh" we do not "carry on sin" because we're not in harmony with the flesh. The seed of God within is the center from which our spiritual self grows. The seed is in us is by God through the words of his son, Jesus, who spoke words of the spirit.

"It is the spirit that is life-giving; the flesh is of no use at all. The sayings that I have spoken to YOU are spirit and are life." -- John 6:63

"Most truly I say to YOU, He that hears my word and believes him that sent me has everlasting life, and he does not come into judgment but has passed over from death to life." -- John 5:24

"The hour is coming, and it is now, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who have given heed will live." -- John 5:25

The dead being spoken about in the last scripture are, I believe those who were spiritually dead before they became believers.

love,
rez


When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one… – Edmund Burke
02-22-2011 12:30 PM
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ablebodiedman
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Post: #19
RE: Born again?

Resolute Wrote:
"The hour is coming, and it is now, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who have given heed will live." -- John 5:25

The dead being spoken about in the last scripture are, I believe those who were spiritually dead before they became believers.

love,
rez


Rez,

Interesting,

Those who are spiritually dead and then become believers are spiritually born again.

Eventually however, they will be literally born again.

Whereas those who remain spiritually dead are not born again spiritually and can expect to be resurrected to judgment and therefore not really born again literally?


In Christ

abe


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02-22-2011 12:45 PM
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e-magine
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Post: #20
RE: Born again?

Resolute Wrote:
John 3:3 reads:

"In answer Jesus said to him: “Most truly I say to you, Unless anyone is born again*, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

The footnote for "is born again" says:

“Is born again.” Lit., “should be [b]generated from above.”[/b] Gr., gen·ne·thei′ a′no·then.

I think this goes way beyond simply being resurrected. Here's some related scripture:

[love,
rez


I concur with you and abe! The footnote shows that being born again is a spiritual thing that will eventually be followed by a literal resurection (a standing up). This will happen either when we are "changed" ( 1 Cor 15:51) or when we are resurected (1 Thess 4:17), everyone at the same time.

PS I personally never felt I was "born again" untill I partook of the bread and wine. Then something happened. !


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Henry Ward Beecher-1872 Preacher of Plymouth Church, Brooklyn, in his home later bought by C.H. Russell.
He is looking at the Brooklyn Bridge,,,, is it the way into, or, out of Brooklyn for you?
02-22-2011 02:46 PM
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New Heart
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Post: #21
RE: Born again?

You have to be born again while alive. You are changed the instant you are. You will testify to what you have seen and have tried to give witness to this, but no one will believe you.

Truly, truly, I say to you, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and you receive not our witness. If I have told you earthly things, and you believe not, how shall you believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Except.....

So those born again can see the Kingdom of God and will tell of what they have seen and heard, but will not be believed . I have been telling of what I have seen and heard, but have been laughed at .

John 1:12

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:


what name?

John 3:32-33 (Amplified Bible)

32. It is to what He has [actually] seen and heard that He bears testimony, and yet no one accepts His testimony [no one receives His evidence as true].

33. Whoever receives His testimony has set his seal of approval to this:

(God is true.)

[That man has definitely certified, acknowledged, declared once and for all, and is himself assured that it is divine truth that God cannot lie].



John 17:17 Dedicate them to yourself by means of the truth; your word is truth.

John 14:6 Jesus answered him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one goes to the Father except by me.

John 16:13 When, however, the Spirit comes, who reveals the truth about God, he will lead you into all the truth. he will not speak on his own authority, but he will speak of what he hears and will tell you of things to come.
Galatians 4:6

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.


14. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with (truth), and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

15. And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

16. Above all, taking the shield of (faith), wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

17. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

18. Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

19. And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel, 20. For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

here is the name I am now called in heaven. This is the new name given me....(FAITHFUL AND TRUTH)

Isaiah 25 (Amplified Bible)

Isaiah 25:1

1. O LORD, You are my God; I will exalt You, I will praise Your name, for You have done wonderful things, even purposes planned of old [and fulfilled] in (faithfulness and truth.)

John 17:11

I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are.

rev. 2:17

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give some of the hidden manna. I will also give him a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to him who receives it.

This verse I testify that this is the truth, that I was given my new name by the hand of the Father, engraved on a sovereign white stone as the one Moses carried off the mountain. I was on my knees bowing before the Father on a tall mountain side that reached the clouds. I saw His glory burning brightly in the corner of a crevase, and there was a white stone tablet, and he began to write on this white stone ...."NOT ONLY SHALL YOU BE CALLED FAITHFUL, BUT YOU SHALL BE CALLED, (FAITHFUL AND TRUTH)"

when he was finished writing this by his finger, He spoke and read what he had just finished writing. I bowed before Him, and then the vision faded.

Isaiah 56:5 to them I will give within my temple and its walls a memorial and a name better than sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name that will not be cut off.

Isaiah 62:2 The nations will see your righteousness, and all kings your glory; you will be called by a new name that the mouth of the LORD will bestow.

ps. 111:7
The works of his hands are faithful and just; all his precepts are trustworthy.

Isaiah 65:15 You will leave your name to my chosen ones as a curse; the Sovereign LORD will put you to death, but to his servants he will give another name.

rev. 1:5

and from Jesus Christ, who is the (faithful witness), the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood,

His servants are found faithful, so they are called this as well.

And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;” (Revelation 3:14)

isaiah 1:26

I will restore your judges as in days of old, your counselors as at the beginning. Afterward you will be called the City of Righteousness, the Faithful City."

Jeremiah 31:23 This is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: "When I bring them back from captivity, the people in the land of Judah and in its towns will once again use these words: 'The LORD bless you, O righteous dwelling, O sacred mountain.'

Love:heartbeat:
New Heart
Faithful and Truth


O LORD, thou art my God; I will exalt thee, I will praise thy name; for thou hast done wonderful things; thy counsels of old are faithfulness and truth.
02-22-2011 03:12 PM
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New Heart
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Post: #22
RE: Born again?

Resolute Wrote:
I think it would be useful to go back to John chapter 3 and get the context. Especially if we're examining the question of the reborn one's status: alive or dead -- righteous or unrighteous, etc.

John 3:3 reads:

"In answer Jesus said to him: “Most truly I say to you, Unless anyone is born again*, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

The footnote for "is born again" says:

“Is born again.” Lit., “should be generated from above.” Gr., gen·ne·thei′ a′no·then.

I think this goes way beyond simply being resurrected. Here's some related scripture:

"Now that YOU have purified YOUR souls by [YOUR] obedience to the truth with unhypocritical brotherly affection as the result, love one another intensely from the heart. For YOU have been given a new birth, not by corruptible, but by incorruptible [reproductive] seed, through the word of [the] living and enduring God." -- 1 Peter 1:22-23

"Everyone who has been born from God does not carry on sin, because His [reproductive] seed remains in such one, and he cannot practice sin, because he has been born from God." -- 1 John 3:9

While we all sin while still "in the flesh" we do not "carry on sin" because we're not in harmony with the flesh. The seed of God within is the center from which our spiritual self grows. The seed is in us is by God through the words of his son, Jesus, who spoke words of the spirit.

"It is the spirit that is life-giving; the flesh is of no use at all. The sayings that I have spoken to YOU are spirit and are life." -- John 6:63

"Most truly I say to YOU, He that hears my word and believes him that sent me has everlasting life, and he does not come into judgment but has passed over from death to life." -- John 5:24

"The hour is coming, and it is now, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who have given heed will live." -- John 5:25

The dead being spoken about in the last scripture are, I believe those who were spiritually dead before they became believers.

love,
rez


it is true you must be.... “generated from above"

we can do nothing apart from Jesus. We cannot climb up some other place.

"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. John 15:5

any other way is as wood, hay and mere stubble, because devine things can only be known by devine enabling.


O LORD, thou art my God; I will exalt thee, I will praise thy name; for thou hast done wonderful things; thy counsels of old are faithfulness and truth.
02-22-2011 03:28 PM
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symbiosis
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Post: #23
RE: Born again?

hi New Heart

Quote:
it is true you must be.... “generated from above"

we can do nothing apart from Jesus. We cannot climb up some other place.

"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. John 15:5

any other way is as wood, hay and mere stubble, because
devine things can only be known by devine enabling.



yes John also testified to these things
3:27
" john answered and said " a man can recieve nothing unless it has been given to him from heaven"

v33

" for he whom God has sent speaks the word of God, for God does not give the spirit by measure"


New Heart i have never experience such things as yourself but i do believe that such things will happen to some of us

acts 2 v 17

"it shall come to pass in the last days says God
That i will pour out my spirit on all flesh
your sons and your daughters shall prophesy
your young men shall see visions
your old men shall dream dreams............"

i expect there will be many more who will experience what you have New Heart

Symbiosis:heartbeat:

02-25-2011 02:34 PM
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New Heart
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Post: #24
RE: Born again?

symbiosis Wrote:
hi New Heart

Quote:
it is true you must be.... “generated from above"

we can do nothing apart from Jesus. We cannot climb up some other place.

"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. John 15:5

any other way is as wood, hay and mere stubble, because
devine things can only be known by devine enabling.



yes John also testified to these things
3:27
" john answered and said " a man can recieve nothing unless it has been given to him from heaven"

v33

" for he whom God has sent speaks the word of God, for God does not give the spirit by measure"


New Heart i have never experience such things as yourself but i do believe that such things will happen to some of us

acts 2 v 17

"it shall come to pass in the last days says God
That i will pour out my spirit on all flesh
your sons and your daughters shall prophesy
your young men shall see visions
your old men shall dream dreams............"

i expect there will be many more who will experience what you have New Heart

Symbiosis:heartbeat:


I am seeing more and more who are experiencing the same thing. You must first know you are spiritually poor and naked, unable to know anything at all unless the spirit of the Father gives truth.

Matthew 5:3
Happy are those who know they are spiritually poor; the kingdom of heaven belongs to them!

I always pray for others as well, that they may be one body, as this prayer below.

Ephesians 1:15-23

Thanksgiving and Prayer

15. For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all God’s people,

16 I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers.

17 I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better.

18 I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in his holy people,

19. and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is the same as the mighty strength 20. he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms,

21. far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age but also in the (one to come.)

22. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 2. 3 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D7Hv1nsq...re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G7PxGskv...re=related

Love,
New Heart :heartbeat:


O LORD, thou art my God; I will exalt thee, I will praise thy name; for thou hast done wonderful things; thy counsels of old are faithfulness and truth.
02-25-2011 03:27 PM
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e-magine
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Post: #25
RE: Born again?

Symbiosis my friend,
Have you partaken of the symbols of Jesus blood and flesh?
"Unless you drink my blood and eat my flesh, you have no part with me", he said.
If you believe in your heart that He is who he is, you are worthy! :heartbeat:


avatar:
Henry Ward Beecher-1872 Preacher of Plymouth Church, Brooklyn, in his home later bought by C.H. Russell.
He is looking at the Brooklyn Bridge,,,, is it the way into, or, out of Brooklyn for you?
02-25-2011 04:25 PM
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