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Divine Intervention In The Fall Of Jerusalem
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Seraphim
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Post: #16
RE: Divine Intervention In The Fall Of Jerusalem

Its funny because in this world of ours we have random as well as orderly occurrences in nature, the bible attests to that. We have Gods sovereignty and free will and we have human free will. Put all those together and shake it up a bit and what do you get? A very complicated reality.

God may create calamity just as he created randomness, but that doesn't mean God directly punishes young children by earthquake or anything else. If one argues that earthquakes that kill thousands without discrimination are being sent by God, we have a problem with saying that God is love. Its that simple.

He who does not love has not come to know God Jesus said. Sodom was not to be destroyed if ten righteous people lived there. Surly we cant argue that little children don`t fit that category.

03-13-2011 11:05 PM
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Totaldismay
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Post: #17
RE: Divine Intervention In The Fall Of Jerusalem

Since the thread is Divine intervention with jerusalems fall.

I wonder if the women and children in the city were spared?
I also recall a pasage where GOD sanctioned the complete destruction of a city and it seems to say to slay all.

My point is. whatever his reasons even if imay or may not agree it is up to him and not us.

I only try to look at the why's and how's so as to live in the way he intended me to live.

Apparently the people in the city of jeruselem did not care to follow the Lord and they received what was coming to them. Even the children it would seem the sins of the fathers did indeed fall on the heads of their sons.

I beleive the bible calls that generation evil and wicked in the same sentence.

03-13-2011 11:49 PM
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Seraphim
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Post: #18
RE: Divine Intervention In The Fall Of Jerusalem

The way I look at is that God let it happen rather than cause it. In some ways if those Jews in Jerusalem has listened to Jesus Rome may not have destroyed them because they would have been following the ways of peace and their king Jesus. The act of killing Jesus in favour of a zealot also called Jesus speaks volumes. That attitude against Rome, from a secular point of view, is connected to why Jerusalem was destroyed.

I think in some ways many of the old testament destructions were like that.

03-13-2011 11:56 PM
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ablebodiedman
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Post: #19
RE: Divine Intervention In The Fall Of Jerusalem

Seraphim Wrote:
Its funny because in this world of ours we have random as well as orderly occurrences in nature, the bible attests to that. We have Gods sovereignty and free will and we have human free will. Put all those together and shake it up a bit and what do you get? A very complicated reality.

God may create calamity just as he created randomness, but that doesn't mean God directly punishes young children by earthquake or anything else. If one argues that earthquakes that kill thousands without discrimination are being sent by God, we have a problem with saying that God is love. Its that simple.

He who does not love has not come to know God Jesus said. Sodom was not to be destroyed if ten righteous people lived there. Surly we cant argue that little children don`t fit that category.


Seraphim,

The reality is not that complicated.

It does not matter if we die.

What matters is what we do while still alive.

Everyone who dies will be resurrected and judged by what they did while still alive.

Including little children.

Immediately before the time of that resurrection God has already told us what to expect in regards to how the Day of Jehovah will play out with calamities going forth from nation to nation.


In Christ

abe


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03-13-2011 11:59 PM
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Seraphim
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Post: #20
RE: Divine Intervention In The Fall Of Jerusalem

So what your saying is that God will punish a little child through earthquakes and whatnot then judge them for what they did by the age of 5, 4 or 2? Doesn't punishment leading to to death denote judgement? Does God judge twice? Couldn't he get it right the first time? I cant see that this view is correct.

03-14-2011 08:36 AM
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Totaldismay
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Post: #21
RE: Divine Intervention In The Fall Of Jerusalem

all men /women die once the scripts say.

judgement and punishments are two differnt things.

not saying it was either.

03-14-2011 09:25 AM
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Seraphim
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Post: #22
RE: Divine Intervention In The Fall Of Jerusalem

I agree and I guess discipline can also be added to the list.

03-14-2011 09:32 AM
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ablebodiedman
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Post: #23
RE: Divine Intervention In The Fall Of Jerusalem

Seraphim Wrote:
So what your saying is that God will punish a little child through earthquakes and whatnot then judge them for what they did by the age of 5, 4 or 2? Doesn't punishment leading to to death denote judgement? Does God judge twice? Couldn't he get it right the first time? I cant see that this view is correct.


Seraphim,

Does God judge twice?

Matthew 10:15
Truly I say to YOU, It will be more endurable for the land of Sod´om and Go·mor´rah on Judgment Day than for that city.


In Christ

abe


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Jehovah's Witnesses - The Bible Report
The Unforgivable Sin
03-14-2011 11:38 AM
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Seraphim
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Post: #24
RE: Divine Intervention In The Fall Of Jerusalem

So you think God kills kids. OK Nothing I say will shift you but I don't agree.

03-14-2011 01:01 PM
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ablebodiedman
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Post: #25
RE: Divine Intervention In The Fall Of Jerusalem

Seraphim Wrote:
So you think God kills kids. OK Nothing I say will shift you but I don't agree.



Seraphim,

I think that God has something far better than living in this wicked world for righteous people.

If a righteous person dies in a calamity it may be a good thing!

The people who survived the earthquake and tsunami may be in for something even worse.

It is more important to think about the new creation than worry about anything that happens in the one that is passing away.

I guess that point of view does not bode well for people who do indeed enjoy living in this slime pit world.


Isaiah 57:1-2
The righteous one himself has perished, but there is no one taking [it] to heart. And men of loving-kindness are being gathered [to the dead], while no one discerns that it is because of the calamity that the righteous one has been gathered away. 2 He enters into peace; they take rest upon their beds, [each] one that is walking straightforwardly.


Like I said above.

How, when or why you die does not matter.

It is what you do while still alive that counts.


In Christ

abe


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Jehovah's Witnesses - The Bible Report
The Unforgivable Sin
03-14-2011 01:31 PM
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Seraphim
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Post: #26
RE: Divine Intervention In The Fall Of Jerusalem

The new creation is spiritual not physical. One cant be born again spiritually if they are dead. Hence the importance of this life. This world is not a slim pit because its God footstool and Jesus loved it so much he came here to be one of us. He said to pray that Gods will be done on earth and for the kingdom to come on it. That means in the hearts of men and women not some building coming out of the clouds.

Of course God has something even better in store for those he loves after our earthly course finishes, but in part that depends on how much spiritual stuff we have built into ourselves. The fruits of the spirit in other words. That means we don`t give up on this world as long as we are here because people live in it.

03-14-2011 02:59 PM
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New Heart
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Post: #27
RE: Divine Intervention In The Fall Of Jerusalem

I know that God is not causing these disasters. Man is..through the power of darkness, satan the devil. The serpent wants to drown the woman's firstborn in Christ as it says in rev chap 12.

There is no darkness in God at all. He is all light. He will allow men to be deceived by darkness, because they did not come to the light. The god of this world is darkness,which spills of hatred, violence, pride, and contempt for all God's true firstborn in Christ.

1 John 1:5

5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.

:)


O LORD, thou art my God; I will exalt thee, I will praise thy name; for thou hast done wonderful things; thy counsels of old are faithfulness and truth.
03-14-2011 03:47 PM
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Interpretum
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Post: #28
RE: Divine Intervention In The Fall Of Jerusalem

So let me get this straight, Abe... are ALL the disasters throughout history an act of God, or just these latest ones?

Of course God is AWARE of it. He is aware of a sparrow falling to its death.

However, that is a world of difference between being AWARE of it, and being the CAUSE of it.

I think you are doing a great dis-service to God by implying He is the CAUSE of those disasters.

Besides, as my original post pointed out (which you have once again derailed... thanks), God ALWAYS does things in a way that is CLEAR ENOUGH to his followers.

For example, Jesus said... when you see X, do Y. That was CLEAR.

In case the Jews were uncertain, Jehovah also sent them other signs, such as chariots in the sky, the altar glowing for half an hour, a prophet going round Jerusalem repeating the same message over and over again.

Combine that with everything the Christians were preaching, and the people were given an UNAMBIGUOUS message of doom upon Jerusalem.

However, the fact that you have to ask this question...

Quote:
Is it the four winds that have recently been released?


... means that it is probably NOT GOD (although I appreciate you were probably being rhetorical.)

I'm pretty sure if this were God acting, we'd KNOW it.

So I go back to my original question to you...are ALL the disasters throughout history an act of God, or just these latest ones?


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03-14-2011 03:49 PM
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Interpretum
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Post: #29
RE: Divine Intervention In The Fall Of Jerusalem

ablebodiedman Wrote:
Sure the occasional natural disaster does occur.


Wait a minute... which ones are natural, and which ones are from God? And how do YOU tell the difference?

Quote:
But do calamities continually go forth from nation to nation?

Jeremiah 25:32-33
“This is what Jehovah of armies has said, ‘Look! A calamity is going forth from nation to nation, and a great tempest itself will be roused up from the remotest parts of the earth. 33 And those slain by Jehovah will certainly come to be in that day from one end of the earth clear to the other end of the earth.


Once again, a scripture quoted completely out of context. Read the opening of that chapter, along with verses 8 through to 26, and you will see when Jehovah fulfilled this prophecy.

It was NOT in 2011AD.

I'm just wondering... do people who completely misapply scriptures count as false prophets?


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03-14-2011 03:55 PM
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Interpretum
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Post: #30
RE: Divine Intervention In The Fall Of Jerusalem

Seraphim Wrote:
He who does not love has not come to know God Jesus said. Sodom was not to be destroyed if ten righteous people lived there. Surly we cant argue that little children don`t fit that category.


Precisely. This is an excellent point.

Sodom was not indiscriminate destruction, like in an earthquake or tsunami. That was a divine judgment from heaven, AFTER God made sure that all the righteous ones had escaped.

For people who think like Abe... isn't it interesting how God particularly seems to judge people who live on or close to so-called techtonic FAULT LINES?

That whole region is termed a "ring of fire". I guess they are just more sinful than everyone else. Nothing at all to do with the geography of the region then... sheesh!


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Latest post: Daniel 9 And The Seventy (70) Weeks - How Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy was fulfilled.
03-14-2011 04:01 PM
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