Latest News: The Great Trubulation


Acts 2:33
Author Message
Sean T
Sean


Posts: 19
Group: Registered Plus
Joined: Jan 2011
Status: Offline
Post: #1
Acts 2:33

Hi all,


I would like to get your thoughts on this scripture-Acts 2:33 'Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing'.

I was profoundly affected by reading this scripture. All this time, I believed it was Jehovah that actually did the pouring out of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost (Festival of weeks); but in reading this scripture it says that Jesus / Yeshua, after he had received the promised Holy spirit from the Father, he (Jesus) then poured it out on those disciples assembled in the upper room.

This also ties in with the scripture at John 16:7 says 'However, I am telling you the truth. It is for your advantage that I am going away, because if I do not go away the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you'.

I read the insight on the scriptures regarding this and even they (the society) describe how Jesus employs the Holy spirit to be poured out on the didciples at Pentecost.

Of course the primary source of the Holy Spirit is from Jehovah (John 15:26). But quite clearly, when we pray to Jehovah (through Jesus name). It is Jesus who then sends this Holy Spirit to us as, being head of the Christian congregation and has the authority to dispense of Jehovahs holy spirit where it is needed.

By the way I am not advocating the Trinity (as I do not beleive whatsoever in the Trinity teaching), but simply putting into perspective the exact role Jesus plays in regard to using and sending the Holy spirirt; or as the society say in their own book (employing Jehovahs Holy spirit). I found all this quite fascinating. It feels like a veil has been lifted from my eyes and couldnt help telling my mother and wife what I had found.

I cant understand why I never knew this before, given the fact it is in the insight book?

Anyone have any thoughts?

Sean


Micah 6:8
He has showed you, O man, what is good.
And what does YHWH require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God.


03-17-2011 07:41 PM
Find all posts by this user
COMankind
Member


Posts: 337
Group: Registered Plus
Joined: Oct 2010
Status: Offline
Post: #2
RE: Acts 2:33

Great study and observation Sean.
I agree with you that this is proof of a sort of 'scepter' that was handed to Jesus. The question is...did Jesus have this scepter before he came to earth? If so, how much authority did he have?


philia, COMankind

"The tent of God is with mankind" - Rev 21:3

03-17-2011 08:33 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
gogh
Participator


Posts: 3,239
Group: Moderator
Joined: Dec 2006
Status: Offline
Post: #3
RE: Acts 2:33

Howdy Sean T

A couple of scripture that help more fully appreciate the value of honouring our Lord Jesus as he should be honoured, imo...

"And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth." (Matthew 28:18...)

"For just as the Father raises the dead up and makes them alive, so the Son also makes those alive whom he wants to. For the Father judges no one at all, but he has committed all the judging to the Son,  in order that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He that does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.  Most truly I say to YOU, He that hears my word and believes him that sent me has everlasting life, and he does not come into judgment but has passed over from death to life." (John 5:21...)

Can our Lord Jesus be honoured enough? No. The more we honour our Shepherd, the more our Father in heaven is honoured, praised and worshiped in spirit and truth.

Pure, clean and simple....(No Muddling. Meddling, Middle Men).


Thanks for the topic Sean T.

Christian love and appreciation,

gogh


"......."This is my Son, whom I have chosen. Keep listening to him!" Luke 9:35
03-17-2011 09:13 PM
Find all posts by this user
Willa
Peace, baby!


Posts: 2,384
Group: Moderator
Joined: Dec 2006
Status: Offline
Post: #4
RE: Acts 2:33

Hello guys!

Quote:
Of course the primary source of the Holy Spirit is from Jehovah (John 15:26). But quite clearly, when we pray to Jehovah (through Jesus name). It is Jesus who then sends this Holy Spirit to us as, being head of the Christian congregation and has the authority to dispense of Jehovahs holy spirit where it is needed.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
Because Jesus has been given ALL authority he has full use of Holy Spirit, whereas he did not while in human flesh, or he couldn't have died I suppose.

These may be relevant here - Romans 8:9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.
Philippians 1:19 for I know that this will turn out for my deliverance through your prayers and the provision of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,
1 Peter 1:11 seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow.
1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;

Quote:
I cant understand why I never knew this before, given the fact it is in the insight book?

because... the wtbts really does push Jesus aside - they really do diminish his authority with subtle words like "only"
and "merely". :( They say they 'follow Jesus', but they overwhelm his teachings with their own to the point that they arrogantly claim that obedience to f&ds directives is 'obedience to Christ'! :O

You're in for more revelations, Sean! One scripture that hit me like lightening is at Mark 9:38 John said to Him, "Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we tried to prevent him because he was not following us." 39 But Jesus said, "Do not hinder him, for there is no one who will perform a miracle in My name, and be able soon afterward to speak evil of Me. 40 For he who is not against us is for us. 41 For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because of your name as followers of Christ, truly I say to you, he will not lose his reward.
(corresp. vss at Luke 9:49 John answered and said, "Master, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name; and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow along with us." 50 But Jesus said to him, "Do not hinder him; for he who is not against you is for you.")[NASB]

I couldn't remember those verses ever being highlighted or commented on, since they pretty much, to me anyway, overturn the notion of one perfected Christian sect in exclusion of all others, like JWs versus 'Christendom' teaching. (impo they're ALL imperfect 'Christendom' inclusively, lol.) There've been so many instances like that, where verses seemed brand new to me because the wt overuses only the verses that prove their doctrines, generally completely out of context. It's awesome to read the New Testament with new eyes! O.O

Have you considered - Romans 9:30-10:17, wherein the NWT mistranslates Romans 10:13 when the context is clearly about Jesus as Lord as Paul applies the prophets' words to him, not the Father. (Matthew 10:22; 1 Corinthians 6:11)
At Acts 2 Peter voices the very same points to his Jewish audience, quoting the same Joel 2:28-32 prophecy and concluding with these poignant words: 36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ--this Jesus whom you crucified." At 4-10-12 - Peter also links the 'rejected cornerstone' with Pauls' reference to 'the stone of stumbling', Christ Jesus)
That epiphany was about the time I discontinued using the NWT. I like the words 'mercy' and 'grace', hehe. I do use the KIT tho', for the Greek word-for-word.

There are going to be many more 'lightbulb moments', Sean. You'll recognise them for what they are - the true treasures of God's word! (and it never stops - those gems just keep revealing themselves!)

Sorry for going so far off topic. >'.'<

ps - good points gogh! :)-


:heartbeat: You are my friends! I don't think it just by chance, but by God's Grand Design, that He has guided both our steps... to let your paths cross mine. :heartbeat:
03-17-2011 10:47 PM
Find all posts by this user
Sean T
Sean


Posts: 19
Group: Registered Plus
Joined: Jan 2011
Status: Offline
Post: #5
RE: Acts 2:33

[/quote I cant understand why I never knew this before, given the fact it is in the insight book?[/quote]because... the wtbts really does push Jesus aside - they really do diminish his authority with subtle words like "only"
and "merely". :( They say they 'follow Jesus', but they overwhelm his teachings with their own to the point that they arrogantly claim that obedience to f&ds directives is 'obedience to Christ'! :O ]


Thanks to CO Mankind, Gogh and Willa for your thoughts. I copied a bit of what you mentioned above Willa and would very much agree with you on this. I have always felt that Jesus has been pushed to the side lines and you have pretty much summed it up in a few lines.

What I find incredible is the very fact that the society hardly ever mention/promote the biblical teaching of Acts 2:33 as they themselves acknowledge on page 1022 of the insight on the scriptures book (vol 2) under the heading 'God's spirit acts as "helper" for the congregation'. I never hear this being promoted at the hall?

Yet just as you and Gogh both mentioned as to what Jesus said at Matthew 28:18 "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me".

In fact if you look at the insight book as I have mentioned in that first paragraph under the heading I stated, the society mention several scriptures to back up what is said at Acts 2:33 ??

But keeping it in perspective, after Peter had mentioned these things to the crowd ( some days later) being filled with Holy Spirit sent by Jesus, both he (peter) and other beleivers then did the following at Acts 4:24 - When they heard this, they raised their voices together in prayer to God. "Sovereign Lord," they said, "you made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and everything in them............

Yes they prayed directly to God, but through Jesus name Acts 4:30.... Stretch out your hand to heal and perform miraculous signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus."

and then after they had offered up a truly heartflet prayer to God though Jesus name, the following happened Acts 4:31 "After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly".


So from what I now beleive in my new understanding is that

a/ The holy spirit we receive primarily comes form Jehovah and it is he who we are always to pray to just as Jesus taught us (Matthew 6:9)

b/ When we pray to Jehovah, we must always pray through Jesus name if we are to receive the Holy Spirit (Acts 4:30).

c/ Having all authority, Jesus has the power as head of the Christian Congregation to send the helper (Gods Holy Spirit) to all sincere Christians who pray to the Father to strengthen them to do Gods will (John 16:7). Yet it is Jehovah we pray to when asking for Holy Spirit (Matthew 6:9).

I must admit, all the things I have learned about Jesus now all click into place. The fact that he is Head of the Christian Congregation, the fact that he is our King and High priest. Also think back to the power he had before he even ascended to heaven. On earth Jehovah gave him Holy spirit to cure people whome he wished. Jesus even used the the Holy Spirit God had given him to calm the elements (Mark 4:35-40)

It is like I now fully understand the significance as to what Jesus exactly does; that he has a very direct hand in how the Holy Spirit is being used. This is a wonderful truth that has been unveiled to me and makes me rejoice in my love for Jehovah and his anointed son Yeshua.

Christian love to you all

Sean


Micah 6:8
He has showed you, O man, what is good.
And what does YHWH require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God.


03-18-2011 07:48 AM
Find all posts by this user
Lauderdale
Member


Posts: 186
Group: Registered Plus
Joined: Oct 2010
Status: Offline
Post: #6
RE: Acts 2:33

Hello Sean T

'' It feels like a veil has been lifted from my eyes ''

The veil has also been lifted from my eyes in this area, still working on other areas as well.
Being a witness for many years and then out of for many more years, i still have all the books for the most part ( insight book ) they even have all the answers right in front of us but we just can not see them, which drives me crazy sometimes.
May Jesus and Jehovah give you many more unveiling's!

Sis Lauderdale :cheer:

03-18-2011 08:43 AM
Find all posts by this user
isomam
In Spite of Many and Much


Posts: 2,239
Group: Registered Plus
Joined: Dec 2006
Status: Offline
Post: #7
RE: Acts 2:33

congratulations, sean. you have been enrolled for full tutelage by none other than the helper, the holy spirit. there's really nothing for any of the rest of us to do except rejoice with you in your progress (which has only just begun) and offer encouragement as you go. the only thing for you to do is continue to cultivate the ability to listen -- really listen -- to that voice as it leads you from one truth to another, all the while remaining humble, pliant, and attentive. when questions arise during the process, all of us are only too happy to try and assist you in getting and proving their answers.

godspeed (which may or may not always be the speed we would wish),

your friend and brother, ... iso


Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. Of these I am foremost.--1 Timothy 1:15.

Above all things, have INTENSE Love for one another.--1 Peter 4:8.

Sanctify the Christ as Lord in your hearts. ... Hold a good conscience.--1 Peter 3:15, 16.

TRUTH IS SIMPLE.
03-18-2011 10:55 AM
Find all posts by this user
e-magine
Disciple of Newness


Posts: 2,488
Group: Registered Plus
Joined: Dec 2006
Status: Offline
Post: #8
RE: Acts 2:33

To add to what Bro ISO and the others have said Sean, you are one step closer to realizing that when we pray to Jehovah (GOD), we are praying to the son also. (NO Trinity here).


avatar:
Henry Ward Beecher-1872 Preacher of Plymouth Church, Brooklyn, in his home later bought by C.H. Russell.
He is looking at the Brooklyn Bridge,,,, is it the way into, or, out of Brooklyn for you?
03-18-2011 11:23 AM
Find all posts by this user
gogh
Participator


Posts: 3,239
Group: Moderator
Joined: Dec 2006
Status: Offline
Post: #9
RE: Acts 2:33

The Watchtower corporation avoids expounding appropriate and due emphasis on, not only, the close relationship between our Father in heaven and our Lord and Shepherd Jesus, but the closeness to them that is available to all.

Some scriptures one will not hear emphasized from platforms in Kingdom Halls...

John 14:20...

"In that day YOU will know that I am in union with my Father and YOU are in union with me and I am in union with YOU."

or especially this one:

John 14:13...

(NWT) "Also, whatever it is that YOU ask in my name, I will do this, in order that the Father may be glorified in connection with the Son. If YOU ask anything in my name, I will do it."

(ISV) "I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
If you ask me for anything in my name, I will do it."

(MSG) "From now on, whatever you request along the lines of who I am and what I am doing, I'll do it. That's how the Father will be seen for who he is in the Son. I mean it.
Whatever you request in this way, I'll do."

Jesus left instructions as to how to pray to our Father in heaven...namely in his (Jesus) name; yet, according to Jesus words, asking him, as long as what is asked is according to our Father's will, he (Jesus) will answer our request(s)...imo

.02,

gogh


"......."This is my Son, whom I have chosen. Keep listening to him!" Luke 9:35
03-18-2011 01:10 PM
Find all posts by this user
COMankind
Member


Posts: 337
Group: Registered Plus
Joined: Oct 2010
Status: Offline
Post: #10
RE: Acts 2:33

It really is encouraging to see others realize something new on their own (and I get to learn something new along the way on top of it.)

Isn't it amazing how different this is from a JW rote bible study, which is more like an exercise in memorization? The furthest thing from making the truth your own.

-----

One area that I spent some time on, when dealing with this subject, was the worship of Jesus.

Matt 14:33 "Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, "Truly you are the Son of God."

John 9:38 "Then the man said, "Lord, I believe," and he worshiped him."

Yet mere angels would not accept worship.

Now, most of Christendom uses this as proof that Almighty God and Jesus are the same person....but sounds like you are really working at a more logical conclusion.


philia, COMankind

"The tent of God is with mankind" - Rev 21:3

03-19-2011 10:16 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Sean T
Sean


Posts: 19
Group: Registered Plus
Joined: Jan 2011
Status: Offline
Post: #11
RE: Acts 2:33

Quote:
[congratulations, sean. you have been enrolled for full tutelage by none other than the helper, the holy spirit. there's really nothing for any of the rest of us to do except rejoice with you in your progress (which has only just begun) and offer encouragement as you go. the only thing for you to do is continue to cultivate the ability to listen -- really listen -- to that voice as it leads you from one truth to another, all the while remaining humble, pliant, and attentive. when questions arise during the process, all of us are only too happy to try and assist you in getting and proving their answers



Thanks to isomam, gogh, lauderdale and e-magine for replies.

I quoted what you had said Isomam as I thought that this was very apporpriate. You are correct, I must listen to what the helper is saying to me, yet remain humble, pliant and attentive.

For the first time in all my years as one of Jehovahs Witnesses, I have almost comleted reading through the entire bible very carefully. This was somehting I had never done before. It has enriched me beyond anything I could ever imagine. In parts of the bible I was unsure about, I used some of the societies publications, as well as a bible commentary I had bought, which has been very useful. I choose to remain very open minded as to what the society say, as well as what is written in the bible commentary I use. Yet overall, I have learned some great things.

The Holy Spirit is something that steers all sincere hearted Christians in the right direction and opens up our understanding. In my prayers, I now pray to the Father (through Jesus name) knowing that Jesus will send the helper (Ye-ho-vah's Holy Spirit) to strengthen me when needed; as he does for all sincere Christians where needed.

Your brother in Christ

Sean

ps. regarding what you said Isomam, I will also use this website (with an open mind) to help me understand things that are unclear to me in my bible research. Thanks


Micah 6:8
He has showed you, O man, what is good.
And what does YHWH require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God.


03-19-2011 10:20 AM
Find all posts by this user

View a Printable Version
Send this Thread to a Friend
Subscribe to this Thread | Add Thread to Favorites

Forum Jump: