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Prophets or Prophesying Today?
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ablebodiedman
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Post: #16
RE: Prophets or Prophesying Today?

ablebodiedman Wrote:
BR,

This is what I would expect a Christian Prophet to be doing:

John 16:7-15
For if I do not go away, the helper will by no means come to YOU; but if I do go my way, I will send him to YOU. 8 And when that one arrives he will give the world convincing evidence concerning sin and concerning righteousness and concerning judgment: 9 in the first place, concerning sin, because they are not exercising faith in me; 10 then concerning righteousness, because I am going to the Father and YOU will behold me no longer; 11 then concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.
12 “I have many things yet to say to YOU, but YOU are not able to bear them at present. 13 However, when that one arrives, the spirit of the truth, he will guide YOU into all the truth, for he will not speak of his own impulse, but what things he hears he will speak, and he will declare to YOU the things coming. 14 That one will glorify me, because he will receive from what is mine and will declare it to YOU. 15 All the things that the Father has are mine. That is why I said he receives from what is mine and declares [it] to YOU.


BR,

Further to this scripture, I see similarities to what the Apostle Paul said in 2nd Thessalonians Chapter 2:

2 Thessalonians 2:7-8
Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence

What is; "the spirit of his mouth"?

I think John Chapter 16 answers that question:

when that one arrives, the spirit of the truth
he will receive from what is mine and will declare it to YOU

The spirit of his mouth!

For this reason I believe that a modern Christian Prophet who exists during the time immediately before Jesus Christs manifestation will play a significant role in exposing, doing away with and judging the man of lawlessness.


That these are "called ones" is supported by what the Apostle Paul said immediately after describing the "man of lawlessness":


2 Thessalonians 2:13-14
However, we are obligated to thank God always for YOU, brothers loved by Jehovah, because God selected YOU from [the] beginning for salvation by sanctifying YOU with spirit and by YOUR faith in the truth. 14 To this very destiny he called YOU through the good news we declare, for the purpose of acquiring the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.


In Christ

abe


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04-06-2011 11:39 AM
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BruisedReed
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Post: #17
RE: Prophets or Prophesying Today?

Hi Brian ... :hibye:

Yes, that is so true about many CLAIMING to be 'prophets' ... and that is indeed what our Lord said would happen ...

Matt. 24:11 ...

(BBE) And a number of false prophets will come, causing error.

(CEV) Many false prophets will come and fool a lot of people.

(DRB) And many false prophets shall rise and shall seduce many.

(ESV) And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray.


(GW) Many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.


Now the Greek word for 'prophet' is ...

G5578 ψευδοπροφήτης

pseudoprophētēs psyoo-dop-rof-ay'-tace


From G5571 and G4396; a spurious prophet, that is, pretended foreteller or religious impostor: - false prophet.

A SPURIOUS prophet would be ...

1. Not being what it purports to be; false or fake: "spurious claims".
2. (of a line of reasoning) Apparently but not actually valid: "this spurious reasoning results in nonsense".


Now back to the Greek word for 'prophet' again ...

G5571 ψευδής

pseudēs psyoo-dace'

From G5574; untrue, that is, [b]erroneous, deceitful, wicked[/b]: - false, liar.

G5574 ψεύδομαι

pseudomai psyoo'-dom-ahee

Middle voice of an apparently primary verb; to utter an untruth or attempt to deceive by falsehood: - falsely, lie.

G4396 προφήτης

prophētēs prof-ay'-tace

From a compound of G4253 and G5346; a foreteller (“prophet”); by analogy an inspired speaker; by extension a poet: - prophet.


Now, this is a totally DIFFERENT concept to my way of thinking than what Jesus' said his followers were to be ... which was TEACHERS and/or LEARNERS of the good news ...

NOT ... FORETELLERS ... and most certainly not to say things that wouldn't be true ... or false 'foretelling' ... :(

For to 'foretell' something would mean to me having information NOT ALREADY KNOWN and someone revealing to others what that information would be wouldn't it ...? :dontknow:

To 'foretell' means ...

Predict (the future or a future event):

to tell of beforehand; predict; prophesy.

[u]predict, foretell, [/u]prognosticate, call, forebode, anticipate, promise
make a prediction about; tell in advance


To me, the more I have reflected on this it seems to me a real warning to BEWARE ANYONE who would CLAIM to be a 'prophet' in any sense UNLESS they had a VISIBLE SUPERNATURAL way to prove as did all the TRUE prophets in the past ...

but again ...

And here is where I think your WARNING is a truly VALID and IMPORTANT reminder brian ...

For it would seem that these 'false prophets' (just as the man of lawlessness would seem to be able to do) would be able to perhaps show a measure of 'signs' that would MAKE IT SEEM they COULD indeed be 'prophets' ... but there would be a WAY for us to be able to diffrentiate the 'true' from the 'false' ... just as it was possible to in the past ...

What I DO think however, is that there WILL be 'prophets' ... TRUE prophets in our day ... just as the PROPHET JOEL foretold there would be ... but that there would be UNDENIABLE PROOFS to such ones ...

just some more thoughts ... nothing written in stone of course ... :love:

Luv Me :sheepy:


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04-06-2011 11:53 AM
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BruisedReed
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Post: #18
RE: Prophets or Prophesying Today?

Hi again br. abe ... :D:hibye:

I would have to agree with your thoughts about a prophet ... I think PROPHETS in the plural would be more accurate in accord with what the scriptures say at Acts 2:17 ...

‘“And in the last days,” God says, “I shall pour out some of my spirit upon every sort of flesh, and YOUR sons and YOUR daughters will prophesy and YOUR young men will see visions and YOUR old men will dream dreams;

Again the Greek word for what these (plural) sons and daughters would do ... PROPHESY ... appears to be VERY DIFFERENT from just 'preaching the good news of the kingdom' ...

G4395 προφητεύω

prophēteuō prof-ate-yoo'-o

From G4396; to foretell events, divine, speak under inspiration, exercise the prophetic office: - prophesy.

[b]G4396 προφήτης

prophētēs prof-ay'-tace


From a compound of G4253 and G5346; a foreteller (“prophet”); by analogy an inspired speaker; by extension a poet: - prophet


This remarkable time is to happen in the 'last days' and ONLY when 'holy spirit' is poured out in a MIRACULOUS way upon those whom our God chooses.

To me, if indeed they are to speak about FUTURE EVENTS ... would mean we will have even MORE GOOD NEWS and perhaps specific instructions as to what is going to occur ... they may be used to explain the words of another prophet ... Daniel ... and what they fully mean as well as Revelation ...

But because we are WARNED that there will be FALSE 'prophets' who will CLAIM 'inspiration' we need to be VERY CAREFUL to those who would 'say' they are 'propets' or in a 'prophet-like' role ... and who claim to ALREADY understand these things ...

Thanks so much for talking about this topic ... I tend to think it is important right now for some reason ... :love:

Luv me :sheepy: BR


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04-06-2011 12:05 PM
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ablebodiedman
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Post: #19
RE: Prophets or Prophesying Today?

BR,

In regard to the false prophets it is also important to understand that THEY WILL BE CHRISTIAN!

Also they will be echoing expressions from Satan, the Demons and the Wild Beast.


Revelation 16:13
And I saw three unclean inspired expressions [that looked] like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the wild beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet.


Due to this strong influence of the False Prophet people will be deceived into getting the mark of the beast.


Revelation 19:19-20
And I saw the wild beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage the war with the one seated on the horse and with his army. 20 And the wild beast was caught, and along with it the false prophet that performed in front of it the signs with which he misled those who received the mark of the wild beast and those who render worship to its image.


The entity that deceives people into getting the mark of the beast is the false prophet.

Understanding that the "false prophet" entity is an entirely Christian one it is likely that only Christians will be misled into receiving this mark of the wild beast.

The vast majority of the world will not listen to a true Christian Prophet let alone a false one.

The only people who need to be concerned about getting the mark of the beast, are Christians.

Yep, Christians are probably not going to want to believe that.



In Christ


abe


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04-06-2011 12:15 PM
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Seraphim
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Post: #20
RE: Prophets or Prophesying Today?

There were foreteller type prophets in the first century. One was called Agabus. He predicted a famine and what would befall Paul and there were many others. These type of prophets are in fact very common still today in the body of Christ. I am one of them. Powerful works though according to Christ in no way guarantee anything, even if the message is true. Balaams blessing didn't mean he was good even though his blessing was indeed from the Lord. `Get away from me workers of lawlessness` can apply just as much to a true prophet as it does to a false one. It has to be said also that foreteller type prophets also can receive current information and interpretative information to help with the bible. I've received all three types of information over the years. So that made me a teacher as well because I had to share that information. However that certainly doesn't make me good or better than anyone else. In fact I was smoking cigarettes at the same time as getting these things. I don't mean cannabis but just ordinary cigarettes`. Should one copy me or listen to me as a result? Certainly not. Its God who speaks through people good or bad. That means we take what is said provisionally and see if it stacks up with the personality of God and Jesus. One just never really knows when God is speaking through others, even atheists. Its like crossing the road. Look both ways every time. If its safe, then cross and never forget to do the same thing every time a road presents itself.

04-06-2011 12:22 PM
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Post: #21
RE: Prophets or Prophesying Today?

Hi again br. abe ...

Interesting thoughts as usual ... :giverose::thumbup:

I am a teeny wee bit hesitant though to say that it will be 'ONLY' those ... or at least the 'majority' of those who will receive the mark will be 'Christian' by being misled by this 'false prophet' ...

For it isn't only for 'religious' reasons that one will want to have this mark is it according to Revelation 13:16,17 ...

16 And it puts [b]under compulsion all persons, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor[/b], and the free and the slaves, that they should give these a mark in their right hand or upon their forehead, 17 and that nobody might be able to buy or sell except a person having the mark, the name of the wild beast or the number of its name.

For it would seem the driving force of this 'beast' is RECOGNITION ... WORSHIP ...

[b]G4352 προσκυνέω

proskuneō pros-koo-neh'-o
[/b]

From G4314 and probably a derivative of G2965 (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master’s hand); to fawn or crouch to, that is, (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore): - worship.


We see this kind of thing already in those 'higher up' in 'religious organizations' don't we ... and so people are already in this mind set and hence the IMPORTANCE of our remaining awake and NOT looking to MEN or to ORGANIZATIONS for our salvation ...

Luv BR :)


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04-06-2011 12:27 PM
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Post: #22
RE: Prophets or Prophesying Today?

Hi again brian ... :hibye:

Isn't it so good when the holy spirit helps us to 'discern' or 'understand' something ...!! :thumbsup:

And once we do of course we want to SHARE it with others ... :grouphug:

But to say this would make 'me' a ... prophet ... in any sense of the word ... I personally wouldn't want to go that far ...

I guess that is why I think this discussion might be so important ... :blush:

And why I am seeking to understand the DIFFERENCE between a PROPHET and a TEACHER/DISCIPLE/PREACHER ...

I tend to think there IS a difference ... and for us not to perhaps mix the two together if they shouldn't be ...

For example the Watchtower society ... FDS ... have claimed to be modern-day ... PROPHETS ... because they 'preach or spread the good news' ... but are they really ...?

Just my thoughts ... BR :)


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04-06-2011 12:32 PM
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Seraphim
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Post: #23
RE: Prophets or Prophesying Today?

If you received supernaturally something like an accurate understanding of scripture, or something about a friend or family member ect from God that stacks up, it does make you a prophet but that doesn't remove the need for discussion where it concerns others, hence Paul councils that others discuss the meaning.

1Co 14:29 Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said.

Now the WT doesn't do this. They don't let others weigh carefully what is said and they don`t let anyone other than the top brass even be a prophet. Thats why they teach the gifts stopped in the first century for everyone except them, if you see what I mean.

Prophets and teachers are different but they have much in common. its not possible to separate them entirely particularly when mere preaching from the bible is also a from of prophesying. One in Christ's day who might have warned a fellow Jew that the temple was going to be destroyed in a generation was acting as a prophet, even if they didn't receive that message directly from God but heard it from Jesus because the words themselves were originally inspired. So if one is a teacher of the Jewish law code they are instructing in inspired words, so again a prophet in that sense. A teacher might be more like teaching ethics in general as opposed to more specific things to specific people as from the inspired word as with the bible perhaps.

04-06-2011 12:57 PM
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NewTruth
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Post: #24
RE: Prophets or Prophesying Today?

Surely there would be some very famous prophets.. because God would want to message out to all.. So no one has any ideas of one...??? We are at the end... now right before the destruction..of the system.. any ideas..????

04-06-2011 01:07 PM
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Post: #25
RE: Prophets or Prophesying Today?

hi again ... :)

I am not disputing what you say you have experienced yourself ... but rather perhaps the 'meaning' of it in the 'understanding' of what being a 'prophet' may be ...

I am glad that you agree that 'teachers and prophets are different' for that is what the scriptures seem to be saying at the following passages ...
[/b]
For example we have this scripture at Ephesians 4:11-12 ...

11 And he gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as [b]evangelizers[/b], some as shepherds and teachers, 12 with a view to the readjustment of the holy ones, for ministerial work, for the building up of the body of the Christ,

Then we also have ...

[b][b][b]1 Corinthians 12:27-31 ...
[/b][/b]
27 Now YOU are Christ’s body, and members individually. 28 And God has set the respective ones in the congregation, first, apostles; second, prophets; third, teachers; then powerful works; then gifts of healings; helpful services, abilities to direct, different tongues. 29t Not all are apostles, are they? Not all are prophets, are they? Not all are teachers, are they? Not all perform powerful works, do they? 30 Not all have gifts of healings, do they? Not all speak in tongues, do they? Not all are translators, are they? 31 But keep zealously seeking the greater gifts. And yet I show YOU a surpassing way.


For us with a witness background it may be somewhat hard for us to separate the two as being distinct as they have been used interchangeably for decades thus giving us the mindset that the 'preaching work' is a 'prophesying work' ... and I am coming to think that they are NOT the same thing at all ...

That being a 'prophet' of God is something unique as it was in the past and that one is CHOSEN BY GOD to do this type of work ... just as he 'chooses' others for other kinds of work as well as these scriptures tell us ... and that of course ALL works of God is indeed a humbling privilege to carry out! :giverose:

Luv BR :)


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04-06-2011 01:13 PM
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BruisedReed
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Post: #26
RE: Prophets or Prophesying Today?

hi newtruth! :hibye::)

I personally can't think of any such prophet today ... for when I tend to think along those lines I right away begin to think of the 'two witnesses' for example who have a 'message' to share and will accomany it with some miraculous deeds ...

I also tend to think that somehow and in someway those who are righteously disposed will be able to recognize the FALSE from the TRUE ... just as Peter and John recognized the men with Jesus at the transfiguration ...

But this is of course just 'feelings' that I have ...:giverose:

Luv BR :)


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04-06-2011 01:17 PM
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Interpretum
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Post: #27
RE: Prophets or Prophesying Today?

Hi BR

BruisedReed Wrote:
I personally can't think of any such prophet today ... for when I tend to think along those lines I right away begin to think of the 'two witnesses' for example who have a 'message' to share and will accomany it with some miraculous deeds ...


Yes, and I doubt the two witnesses are literal figures, unless we're expecting them to breathe fire?

"And if anyone wants to harm them, fire issues forth from their mouths and devours their enemies; and if anyone should want to harm them, in this manner he must be killed." (Rev 11:5)

However, this is probably related to what Jesus promised his followers:

"Therefore settle it in your hearts not to rehearse beforehand how to make your defense, for I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your opposers together will not be able to resist or dispute." (Luke 21:14,15)

This is why I see the "two witnesses" as a symbol for two large GROUPS of people... two great congregations (lampstands), that emerged earlier on in Revelation...

"...a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel" (Rev 7:4)

"a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues..." (Rev 7:9)

These are the two FOLDS Jesus referred to...

"And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those also I must bring, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd." (John 10:16)


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04-06-2011 01:40 PM
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Seraphim
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Post: #28
RE: Prophets or Prophesying Today?

I agree with you Interpretum.

One aspect of the role of the prophet was in being a counterbalance to the priestly side of things. In modern language that would be the priests, pasters and bishops ect. Those who represent the statuesque and keep things the way they are. The prophet would come along and basically say something along the lines of , `hang on people your abusing this law or applying this unjustly or you need to it this way from now on because of a new so and so that's happening or will happen. Stop it, or change it, otherwise God will sort you out or the circumstances will`. In other words a prophet would be against the statuesque. In this sense it might explain the difference between a prophet and a teacher. A teacher teaches the statuesque or accepted interpretation or ways of doing things, but a prophet does the opposite from God based on new circumstances that turn the application of just laws into unjust ones ect. This might also explain why prophets are considered one notch above teachers as Paul seems to suggest. Does that help at all?

04-06-2011 02:15 PM
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BruisedReed
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Post: #29
RE: Prophets or Prophesying Today?

Hi again ... not so sure I fully can agree ... for it would seem to me that these 'two witnesses' would do MIRACULOUS just as all the other prophets did before them ...

a wee bit further in Revelation we see them being able to do some of the very same things as was done in the past ...

Rev. 11:3-6 ...


3 And I will cause my two witnesses to prophesy a thousand two hundred and sixty days dressed in sackcloth.” 4 These are [symbolized by] the two olive trees and the two lampstands and are standing before the Lord of the earth.

5 And if anyone wants to harm them, fire issues forth from their mouths and devours their enemies; and if anyone should want to harm them, in this manner he must be killed. 6 These have the authority to shut up heaven that [b]no rain should fall during the days of their prophesying, and they have authority over the waters to turn them into blood and to strike the earth with every sort of plague as often as they wish.[/b]


So whoever these 'two witnesses' may come to be it would seem that their being a PROPHET is only to be for a LIMITED time period ... a time period in which they have AUTHORITY as PROPHETS to speak a DIVINE MESSAGE ... whatever that message may be ...

G4395 προφητεύω

prophēteuō prof-ate-yoo'-o


From G4396; to foretell events, divine, speak under inspiration, exercise the prophetic office: - prophesy.


The events and authority (power) mention would seem to me to be MUCH MORE than what a mere 'TEACHER' would do wouldn't you think ...?

G1849 ἐξουσία

exousia ex-oo-see'-ah


From G1832 (in the sense of ability); privilege, that is, (subjectively) force, capacity, competency, freedom, or (objectively) mastery (concretely magistrate, superhuman, potentate, token of control), delegated influence: - authority, jurisdiction, liberty, power, right, strength.


Not trying to be agrumentative nor dogmatic ... just trying to be like a beroean ... :)

Luv BR


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04-06-2011 02:32 PM
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Seraphim
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Post: #30
RE: Prophets or Prophesying Today?

It strikes me that the two outpourings of the holy spirit, one on Jews and then another on Gentiles ties Revelation into the first century in this aspect of the two witnesses. Those gifts were the MIRACULOUS in my view. Those gifts are still with us today. Just a thought.

04-06-2011 02:38 PM
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