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Prophets or Prophesying Today?
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Interpretum
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Post: #76
RE: Prophets or Prophesying Today?

Hi Gogh

gogh Wrote:
Re: "The problem I have with any kind of two-fold application is Jesus' words...."

Please explain your personal interpretabulation of Jesus words as he stated:

"For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be."


Sorry, I must have missed your question, I only just caught it now.

As usual, the CONTEXT provides the explanation... although Luke's version gives a better understanding of Jesus' warning. It helps to look at the whole of the latter part of Luke 17...


Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God was coming, he answered them, "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; nor will they say, 'Lo, here it is!' or 'There!' for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you."

And he said to the disciples, "The days are coming when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and you will not see it. And they will say to you, 'Lo, there!' or 'Lo, here!' Do not go, do not follow them. For as the lightning flashes and lights up the sky from one side to the other, so will the Son of man be in his day.

But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of man. They ate, they drank, they married, they were given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.

Likewise as it was in the days of Lot--they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built, but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom fire and sulphur rained from heaven and destroyed them all-- so will it be on the day when the Son of man is revealed.

On that day, let him who is on the housetop, with his goods in the house, not come down to take them away; and likewise let him who is in the field not turn back.
Remember Lot's wife.


So FIRST he would be rejected by "this generation" (where have we heard that phrase before?), and then there would be the revealing of the Son of man.

He then compares that day to both the time of Noah, AND the time of Lot. Now, in Lot's day, only the CITIES of Sodom and Gomorrah (and the districts around them) were destroyed.

Clearly then, Jesus does not bring up Noah in reference to world destruction.... but in reference to Noah and Lot having to take ACTION, and flee from a wicked generation.

After Jesus was rejected by that generation, that generation suffered the same fate as Noah's generation, and Lot's generation... they were destroyed... with only the people who heeded Jesus escaping.

That is why it would be like the days of Noah and Lot.

That wicked generation who rejected Jesus were destroyed about 37 years later.


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04-24-2011 09:35 PM
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gogh
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Post: #77
RE: Prophets or Prophesying Today?

Thank you for your response Interpretum.

I continue to reason that there will also be a time (future), before Satan is abyssed, that world wide conditions will mirror those of pre-flood inhabitants of planet earth.

Christian love and appreciation for presenting expressions of your reasoning(s)/interpretabulation(s)....grin

gogh


"......."This is my Son, whom I have chosen. Keep listening to him!" Luke 9:35
04-24-2011 09:56 PM
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ablebodiedman
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Post: #78
RE: Prophets or Prophesying Today?

gogh Wrote:
Thank you for your response Interpretum.

I continue to reason that there will also be a time (future), before Satan is abyssed, that world wide conditions will mirror those of pre-flood inhabitants of planet earth.

Christian love and appreciation for presenting expressions of your reasoning(s)/interpretabulation(s)....grin

gogh


gogh,

I agree.

The greatest tribulation!

Daniel 12:1
And during that time Mi´cha·el will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of the sons of your people. And there will certainly occur a time of distress such as has not been made to occur since there came to be a nation until that time. And during that time your people will escape, every one who is found written down in the book.


I hope there are plenty of names written down in that book.


Revelation 20:11-12
And I saw a great white throne and the one seated on it. From before him the earth and the heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. But another scroll was opened; it is the scroll of life.



Daniel 7:9-10
“I kept on beholding until there were thrones placed and the Ancient of Days sat down. His clothing was white just like snow, and the hair of his head was like clean wool. His throne was flames of fire; its wheels were a burning fire. 10 There was a stream of fire flowing and going out from before him. There were a thousand thousands that kept ministering to him, and ten thousand times ten thousand that kept standing right before him. The Court took its seat, and there were books that were opened.


In Christ

abe


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04-24-2011 10:05 PM
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digging
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Post: #79
RE: Prophets or Prophesying Today?

Well I have been thinking about some of the points made here by Acts and I agree much with what she has said, however I feel Abe is exactly right and the Kings that Jesus is king over are the righteous not the fleshly worldly kings/ruler of today.

However Acts IS making some very good observations about the environment, I agree and belief that we are going to continue to see huge changes in our weather which will begin to affect our food supply and cause many other problems. I believe this is what the 'sign in sun and moon and stars' is pointing . Also the point of Christ 'coming in the clouds' I believe this is a connection to the 'storm clouds' of the day of YHWH. All of which is pointing back to what we are beginning to see in the global weather extremes. The human race has started a war against the earth which IS also a war againt the creator of the earth.

I agree someone is going to pray to YHWH for help to save all life, but rather than the wicked kings whom are fighting against God it will be the faithful believers as mentioned in Joel 2

Let the bridegroom leave his room
and the bride her chamber.
17 Let the priests, who minister before the LORD,
weep between the portico and the altar.
Let them say, “Spare your people, LORD.
Do not make your inheritance an object of scorn,
a byword among the nations.
Why should they say among the peoples,
‘Where is their God?’”

I believe the bridegroom and bride mentioned here is Christ and his Bride the faithful body of mankind resurrected when he returns.

If your interested in this view read all of Joel and see why they are weeping and praying to God, but to heal the earth from the damage the locust had done. We are the locust and the storm clouds are forming right now.

Digging

05-01-2011 10:38 PM
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Acts5v29
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Post: #80
RE: Prophets or Prophesying Today?

digging Wrote:
Well I have been thinking about some of the points made here by Acts and I agree much with what she has said, however I feel Abe is exactly right and the Kings that Jesus is king over are the righteous not the fleshly worldly kings/ruler of today.


Hi Digging,

    I enjoyed your comments and agree that the environment is significant - think most people do really.

    As for the "King of kings" issue, I understand that viewpoint. However when it's mentioned in 1st Timothy it is preceded by a reference to Pontius Pilate, himself a lord for Rome:
      13. In the sight of God, Who preserves all things alive, and of Christ Jesus, who as a witness made the fine public declaration before Pontius Pilate, I give you orders 14. that you observe the commandment in a spotless and irreprehensible way until the manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15. This [manifestation] the happy and only Potentate will show in it’s own appointed times, [he] the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords
              --- 1st of Timothy 6:13-15

    which gives the phrase in verse 15 it's very reason for being stated. And in Revelation the context is clearly talking of earthly kings also:

      12. And the ten horns that you saw mean ten kings, who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings one hour with the wild beast. 13. These have one thought, and so they give their power and authority to the wild beast. 14. These will battle with the Lamb, but, because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, the Lamb will conquer them. Also, those called and chosen and faithful with him [will do so].
              --- Revelation 17:12-14

    - otherwise it would be describing a revolt in those who have been given immortality in the Heavens, kings from amongst the "called and chosen and faithful" who help Christ in his battle.

    The notion of being King over earthly kings is because earthly kings - heads of state and their head ministers - have inherited the godly authority in the earth from Adam, and only they can relinquish it. As the climate crisis becomes too great, these ones - rather than the faithful who have always called for God's Kingdom - these who possess that prestige and power will admit the issue in Genesis that Man cannot manage without God, and thus subject their authority under whomsoever He sends to help us.

    In a real way, God is allowing the ones with the vested interest - the most partisan, the voices most likely to dissent - to declare the judgment, so that the judgment will be unshakeable. Thus Christ becomes the "King of those who rule as kings" - Christians of couse have never doubted that he would rule over the immortal elect.

    I do understand this is a very different notion from what has been preached for centuries, but it is simple, perfect, holy, deflates any superior attitudes which have tainted worship, settles the real issue of Man's existence thus far - and delivers freedom now as it shows that salvation is not through knowledge nor belief - nor even in this notion - but is a consequence of God's solution.

    Nice reading you again digging

Acts5v29


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05-02-2011 06:07 AM
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Acts5v29
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Post: #81
RE: Prophets or Prophesying Today?

isomam Wrote:

Acts5v29 Wrote:

    I agree there is plenty for us still to eventually understand and see fulfilled, and will be revealed by prophets during our Lord's day.

    But in this era of Mankind's independence there is no need to know. There is clearly a flow moving now, like a snowball rolling downhill, which no power on earth can stop. The Last Prophet of this era is focusing the minds of everyone to call - as people instinctively do in times of dire need - to the Heavens for help. This is the only requirement of the Prodigal Son Mankind as this era ends. Everything else - religion, belief, doctrine, understanding of prophecy, even whether we are good or bad - is completely superfluous in this. The admission that we cannot manage without God will conclude the great contention in Genesis and will be sufficient to end the drought of Divine nature in the earth for ever. God has arranged this simple requirement so that everyone alive will be preserved to taste life under the King of kings.
Acts5v29


maybe some will have questions or wish to discuss?

[a new thread, perhaps?]
__________


Here is a question on the kindness of God's rescue which seems relevant:

    As Christians, how do we feel at the thought of everyone alive - atheists, Muslims, Jews, people on death row - surviving at our Lord's return.



Acts5v29


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05-17-2011 10:31 AM
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ablebodiedman
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Post: #82
RE: Prophets or Prophesying Today?

Acts5v29 Wrote:
Here is a question on the kindness of God's rescue which seems relevant:

    As Christians, how do we feel at the thought of everyone alive - atheists, Muslims, Jews, people on death row - surviving at our Lord's return.



Acts5v29


Acts5v29,

I think everyone alive at Jesus Christs return will be alive at Jesus Christs return.

A better question to ask is what happens to the people who are dead at Jesus Christs return.

and

What happens during and after Jesus Christs return to those who are alive and those who are dead.


In Christ

abe


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05-17-2011 11:17 AM
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e-magine
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Post: #83
RE: Prophets or Prophesying Today?

As Christians, how do we feel at the thought of everyone alive - atheists, Muslims, Jews, people on death row - surviving at our Lord's return.



♥ Acts5v29

Hi Acts! I embrace that thought!
It has entered my mind that being a 'Christian", had nothing to do with one's personal eschatology, but more on ones heart condition. Having "knowledge" of what is true or not is secondary.
..."I want mercy, and not sacrafice"
Being a Christians means having the attributes of Christ.

...We are 3 dimensional beings, but we are aware that there are higher dimensions that we are not sensitive to. In a higher dimension, our Earth is a living life form. It's not plant life, nor animal life, nor biological, it's something else. It has life cycles of its own and also reacts to its inhabitants. And its not happy right now.


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He is looking at the Brooklyn Bridge,,,, is it the way into, or, out of Brooklyn for you?
05-17-2011 11:21 AM
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Post: #84
RE: Prophets or Prophesying Today?

e-magine Wrote:

Acts5v29 Wrote:
As Christians, how do we feel at the thought of everyone alive - atheists, Muslims, Jews, people on death row - surviving at our Lord's return.

♥ Acts5v29

Hi Acts! I embrace that thought!


    E-Magine, I just knew you would!

e-magine Wrote:
It has entered my mind that being a 'Christian", had nothing to do with one's personal eschatology, but more on ones heart condition. Having "knowledge" of what is true or not is secondary.
..."I want mercy, and not sacrafice"
Being a Christians means having the attributes of Christ.


    That sounds so good!

    The question wasn't about "procedure" or details. The long-preached "pragmatics" have been that only Christians in the mythical "one true religion" will survive, and that the death of others will be a sign of their following Christ in the way he intended. But God's all-encompassing rescue is a Divine kindness which years of Christian teaching have not prepared us for, the Christian heart has suffered under worldly religious shepherding - even cultivating a desire for the destruction of others - and as you say the heart is the important thing.

    So as a cathartic question,

      how do we feel at others being rescued along with us? Do we feel cheated of exclusivity? Do we think they don't deserve the same as the faithful? Do we see survival actually as a reward for our faith? Are we disappointed that "the righteous" will not "inherit the earth" at the rescue - that there is longer to go with "people of the world" around us?

    Because when the great day arrives, WatchTower people and Baptist people and Mormons and Jews and Muslims and atheists will all see each other alive alongside them, wondering why they alone haven't inherited the earth. Maybe if we ponder over these much felt but unspoken feelings we might free ourselves of some of the hardness which has tainted Christianity and get closer to the heart condition which Jesus wants us to benefit from.

Acts5v29


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05-18-2011 10:10 AM
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e-magine
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Post: #85
RE: Prophets or Prophesying Today?

How some self rightous Jews felt towards the Samaritan might be a good lesson for us. "God does not desire any to be destroyed..."
If He causes the death of anyone, it will only be until they are resurected. Even the "Lake of fire, second death", may mean more then we understand.


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He is looking at the Brooklyn Bridge,,,, is it the way into, or, out of Brooklyn for you?
05-18-2011 03:48 PM
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isomam
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Post: #86
RE: Prophets or Prophesying Today?

e-magine Wrote:
How some self-righteous Jews felt towards the Samaritan might be a good lesson for us.

"God does not desire any to be destroyed..."

If He causes the death of anyone, it will only be until they are resurrected.

Even the "Lake of fire, second death" may mean more than we [presently] understand.


interesting food for thought, isn't it? :wink:

so much of what jesus said must be understood as "concessionary." that is, he had to make concessions to his audiences' hopelessly-flawed and -tangled ways of thinking. befuddled by religion; traumatized and brutalized by scores of generations of compounded dysfunction; ... it is a wonder they could grasp anything he tried to teach them at all.

[much credit to him for having been the greatest teacher to have ever lived, yes?]


Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. Of these I am foremost.--1 Timothy 1:15.

Above all things, have INTENSE Love for one another.--1 Peter 4:8.

Sanctify the Christ as Lord in your hearts. ... Hold a good conscience.--1 Peter 3:15, 16.

TRUTH IS SIMPLE.
05-18-2011 07:10 PM
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e-magine
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Post: #87
RE: Prophets or Prophesying Today?

Thanks for that ISO! Can always depend on you for insight and encouragement!


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He is looking at the Brooklyn Bridge,,,, is it the way into, or, out of Brooklyn for you?
05-19-2011 12:46 AM
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grateful
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Post: #88
RE: Prophets or Prophesying Today?

If God sent his own Son to die that dreadful death for ALL mankind, because he loved the world so much, then I am convinced that His great mercy and justice towards ALL mankind will be so far reaching that it will touch the lives of even those we would probably never even consider as worthy of everlasting life according to our standards.:thinking: Who are we to judge who gets life or not anyway?:thinking: We don't know the heart condition, nor the dreadful life stories of many who have done terrible things in life. We all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Yes, some more than others have done atrocious things, but only God can do the cleansing work of those he knows more intimately than we do. Millions have never even heard of Jesus and the love he showed by dying for them.:thinking: Thankfully, many have come to know God and His Son, and have made changes even in an imperfect world,so we can only imagine how millions will do the same when given a chance to really see their heavenly Father's interest in them personally, and what He intends to do for all His earthly children in the future.:heartbeat: What our heavenly Father along with His Son will do one day for all those who love them, is really beyond our imagination at this point!:heartbeat:
Agape,
Grateful :giverose:

05-19-2011 05:49 PM
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Willa
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Post: #89
RE: Prophets or Prophesying Today?

Great thread - great posts! I'm much more inclined to believe 'inclusively' rather than 'exclusively' as well.

:)


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05-20-2011 11:03 AM
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