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The black horse and scales
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COMankind
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Post: #16
RE: The black horse and scales

100% with you on that one.


Interpretum Wrote:
Hi digging

digging Wrote:
However the part about the 1st rider having a crown, the heads of the beast also have crowns or diadems, so I see that leaving it open as a symbol for mankinds method of rule apart from God.


Faithful ones in Christ wear a crown, and also conquer.

"I am coming soon; hold fast what you have, so that no one may seize your crown. He who conquers..." (Rev 3:11,12)

"And I saw, and behold, a white horse, and its rider had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer." (6:2)

Also, the 24 elders wear crowns:

"Round the throne were twenty-four thrones, and seated on the thrones were twenty-four elders, clad in white garments, with golden crowns upon their heads." (4:4)

I'll admit the first horseman seems somewhat ambiguous. However, it COULD also represent all the holy ones in Christ.

In that case, the horsemen collectively represent... the FAITHFUL, WAR, FAMINE, DEATH... followed by MARTYRS.

I'd suggest this parallels what Jesus talked about in Matthew 24... war, famine, death, endurance, some being killed for Christ... all before the fleeing from Judea.


philia, COMankind

"The tent of God is with mankind" - Rev 21:3

04-27-2011 05:04 PM
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digging
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Post: #17
RE: The black horse and scales

I know I use to think he was a symbol for Jesus too, however now I feel not so. First off in Revelation it seems to clearly describe the Christ when he is mentioned as the lamb or the word of God or simply as himself.

So with the white horse consider for a moment that he might be a symbol for the man of lawlessness whom sets himself up to be followed and revered by men as a great leader.(2Thess2)

I feel now that the man of lawlessness and this white horseman is describing the same thing which is also the beast in Rev chapter 13.

However I don't believe this is a symbol for a single person but a collective effort of our modern system of 'democratic' gov't. Gov't by the people the last style of rulership mentioned in Daniel with the statue and the feet (10 toes) in place at the time Christ returns and the stone crushes it all.

Just like the bride of Christ is not a single woman but a symbol for a large group of people all in agreement.

The beast is given authority (crown?) and makes war with the saints overcoming/conquering them. Does not the crowned white horseman conquer also?

Well that should be enough for now!

Digging

04-28-2011 03:34 PM
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MAKARIOS
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Post: #18
RE: The black horse and scales

Ishamel's nation became great and lived in wilderness, he became an archer. Ishameal had twelve sons, and a daughter, just like Jacob had twelve sons and one daughter.

Essau was also an archer.

Look here too,
Exodus 15:1....."“Let me sing to Jehovah, for he has become highly exalted. The horse and its rider he has pitched into the sea...."

Exodus 15: 4...." Phar′aoh’s chariots and his military forces he has cast into the sea, And the choice of his warriors have been sunk in the Red Sea."

Exodus 15:21......"Sing to Jehovah, for he has become highly exaulted. The horse and it's rider he has pitched into the sea"

Rev 7:8 ...."something like a great mountain burning with fire was hurled into the sea"....

Matt 4:8 Again the Devil took him along to an unusually high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory,


Matthew 18:6 6 But whoever stumbles one of these little ones who put faith in me, it is more beneficial for him to have hung around his neck a millstone such as is turned by an ass and to be sunk in the wide, open sea.


Luke 17: 2 It would be of more advantage to him if a millstone were suspended from his neck and he were thrown into the sea than for him to stumble one of these little ones.

I do find it odd that the first rider be Jesus, and the other three is mean. I have wondered how could the lamb, Jesus be opening up the first seal, and the rider is himself?

Yes the rider, a crown was given him. True, but just who gave him the crown?.... it does'nt even say it's golden.

a crown could simply mean a time to rule.

Just a thought....

Makarios

08-10-2011 12:19 PM
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Post: #19
RE: The black horse and scales

Good points,

Thank-you for that I will be thinking about what you have shared.

I am more and more of the conviction this white house is more of a symbol of mankinds collective 'conquering' of the world through the spread of 'empire' or 'civilization'.

Digging

08-10-2011 02:35 PM
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MAKARIOS
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Post: #20
RE: The black horse and scales

Hi Digging,

What about....

Rev 6:8

"And authority was given them over the forth part of the earth, (the first rider)

to kill with a long sword ( the second rider)

and with food shortages (the third rider)

and with deadly plague & by the wildbeast of the earth (the fourth rider--death & hades)


Just a thought...


Makarios

08-10-2011 06:06 PM
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MAKARIOS
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Post: #21
RE: The black horse and scales

Now....I just came across diaglott digging.... this is very interesting....

Because here it says...regarding the fourth rider...

"and when he opened the seal the fourth, i heard the fourth living one saying: Come thou and see thou. And (I saw, and) lo a horse pale, and the one sitting on him, a name to him the death; and the unseen followed (with) him; and was given to him authority over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with a sword and with famine and with death, and by the wildbeast of the earth."

In Greek is it says "Him" when in New world translation it says "Them". This makes a difference.

now what i noticed in here is..... the rider's given name is Death, but HADES---the "unseen" was following with him. It was HADES that authority was given over to rule the fourth part of the earth....

Why was it to the unseen--hades given authority to rule? why? could it be to repeat the previous riders--to look like them on spiritual terms?

Is the wildbeast of the earth....the "unseen"-- Hades..... that's following Death--the Wildbeast that comes from the sea...or is it the dragon?


(Re 13:11-13) And I saw another wild beast ascending out of the earth, and it had two horns like a lamb, but it began speaking as a dragon. 12 And it exercises all the authority of the first wild beast in its sight. And it makes the earth and those who dwell in it worship the first wild beast, whose death-stroke got healed. 13 And it performs great signs, so that it should even make fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the sight of mankind.

It excercises the authority of the first wild beast....

Rev 13:1-3

(Re 13:1-3) And it stood still upon the sand of the sea. And I saw a wild beast ascending out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, and upon its horns ten diadems, but upon its heads blasphemous names. 2 Now the wild beast that I saw was like a leopard, but its feet were as those of a bear, and its mouth was as a lion’s mouth. And the dragon gave to [the beast] its power and its throne and great authority. 3 And I saw one of its heads as though slaughtered to death, but its death-stroke got healed, and all the earth followed the wild beast with admiration.

Just a thought....

Makarios

08-10-2011 08:34 PM
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Post: #22
RE: The black horse and scales

Wow! Very good observation. Yes I agree and more and more am believing many of these visions are of a single larger happening. Some of them of the same event just explained in a different vision.

Digging

08-10-2011 08:38 PM
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MAKARIOS
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Post: #23
RE: The black horse and scales

As I mentioned before it looks like, It was DEATH that gave HADES--the "UNSEEN", authority.

Diaglott Revelation 6:8 explains, but look closely...." And [I saw and] lo a horse pale, and the one sitting on him, a name to him the death; and the unseen followed [with][/i] him;

and was *given to him authority* over the fourth part of the earth, (first rider)
to kill with a sword, (second rider)
and with famine, (third rider)
and with death,(fourth rider, Death)
and by the wild beasts of the earth. (hades--unseen, invisible)


( ) --Mine.

It seems, Death is the wildbeast number one that gave HADES--the unseen, an authority.

Hades, ............."by the wildbeasts of the earth" Revelation 6:8.

There was a wildbeast that ascended from the earth. Rev 13:11.

who are they? Death and Hades? Hades-- UNSEEN/INVISIBLE (Diaglott words for HADES)

Who is Death...and...Who is Hades--the unseen, and invisible that is closely following Death?

Look here....REV 20:14".... And death and Hades were hurled into the lake of fire."

Look again a few verses up--it's in Rev 20:10.... "And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulphur, where both the wildbeast and the false prophet (already were);...."

Just a thought...

Makarios

08-15-2011 07:34 PM
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Post: #24
RE: The black horse and scales

It took me a bit but I found a vs that has reminded me of what you have said.

Heb 2:14 Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,.

Interesting it says the devil had the power of death???

The wild beasts of the earth I don't believe is meaning the lions, bears etc, but rather the wild beasts described in the book of revelation it's self.

Digging

08-17-2011 02:58 AM
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MAKARIOS
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Post: #25
RE: The black horse and scales

Hi Digging!
It's very interesting you came across this verse...

Heb 2:14 Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,.

Satan has the power of death. He can give it to whomever he wishes.

Remember also Jesus says he has the KEYS to death and to hades.

Keys, has many meanings. According to the New World Dictionary, second edition, two of the many explantations given are:

"something regarded as like a key in OPENING or closing a way, REVEALING OR CONCEALING......."

"a thing that EXPLAINS or SOLVES something else as a book of answers, the explanations on a map...."

notice it says, not one key, but, KEYS. there is more than one key.

There is more to Death and Hades than we are taught in the organization.

He has the KEYS to what? death and Hades. Jesus is the one who is OPENING the seals, which the first four is about the 4 riders....

That has to do with REVELATION 6:8, this very well may explain the four riders.

As you say the Devil has power of death. This brings to mind

Rev 13:2, about the first wildbeast that comes out of sea, "...the dragon gave to [the beast] its power and its throne and great authority"

According to Heb 2:14, The devil has the power of death.

The fourth rider, diaglott, "a name to him the death"

IF the scrolls really contained the word, "him" just after hades, In Rev 6:8, then this could means the authority was given to the wildbeast from the earth (hades) the false prophet. Rev 13:11

IF the scrolls really contained the word, "them" just after hades, then this could mean the authority was given to the wildbeast from the sea. Rev 13:1

All together the four riders show what their goals are so that they MIGHT conquer.

Just a thought...
Makarios

In addition to this, under the Biblical topics box, there's a forum called, 'reasoning from the scriptures". A thread has previously been started by fugitive1, called, "The rider of the white horse--who is he?" I just made a post in there explaining how i see it possiblity linking it with the famous prophecy in Genesis 3:15 and with the tribe of Dan.

08-17-2011 12:36 PM
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