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How could Jesus already "have other sheep"
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COMankind
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How could Jesus already "have other sheep"

"I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd." - John 10:16

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After speaking with a few pastors, I've noticed a common theme with the Christian faith...that salvation relies on a version of the following: 'follow Christ' 'through the blood of Christ' 'grace of Christ' etc. This means ultimately that only those who profess to be Christians can have the opportunity to gain salvation.

'Follow Jesus' or the personal invitation to follow his voice as a shepherd, is used like a religious beacon or mascot. When instead the invitation seemed to imply an offer to follow what he taught and seek him out.

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Which brings me to the point....When Jesus said "I HAVE other sheep" - most of us will agree he was referring to the Gentiles (anyone, around the globe, not a Jew.) However:

- the Gentiles did not actually 'know' him yet. Cornelius was a few years away.
- How could they currently be his sheep if they didn't know him?
- If they were worshiping pagan Gods, or none at all, how could Jesus call them sheep?

"When Jesus landed and saw a large crowd, he had compassion on them, because they were like sheep without a shepherd. So he began teaching them many things." - mark 6:34

"This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am against the shepherds and will hold them accountable for my flock. I will remove them from tending the flock so that the shepherds can no longer feed themselves. I will rescue my flock from their mouths, and it will no longer be food for them.

‘For this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I myself will search for my sheep and look after them. As a shepherd looks after his scattered flock when he is with them, so will I look after my sheep. I will rescue them from all the places where they were scattered on a day of clouds and darkness." Ez 34:10-12

Can't anyone, of any faith, be a sheep...without ever knowing Jesus? Do they really need to follow the beacon by way of an earthly shepherd (Christian religion) or do they simply need to follow the principles of love and mercy that he taught i.e. follow Jesus spiritually?


philia, COMankind

"The tent of God is with mankind" - Rev 21:3

05-17-2011 09:49 PM
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man hu
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RE: How could Jesus already "have other sheep"

And other sheep I am having (imperfect i.e. continuous, not aldeady done) which is not out of this pen, and those it is necessary for me to lead.
He already had some sheep not from the Mosaic pen, like the Samaritan woman and her village, the woman from Syracuse, the Centurion with his servant and more were yet to come.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1sj2gQJIKI
05-17-2011 11:02 PM
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Beau Wetini
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RE: How could Jesus already "have other sheep"

LOL, nice post, COMankind...so very not traditional....I love it!


The resolution for me, is that God doesnt abide by superficial labels nor does He require some santimonious tradition to be "one of His".

Many Christians would prefer to damn all who don't believe exactly as they do, yet they, imo, miss the point. Truth isn't a cake recipe of beliefs and creeds.

Yet for some reason, there seem to be many bakers in the Christian world.


Cheers, brother!


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05-17-2011 11:35 PM
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Beau Wetini
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RE: How could Jesus already "have other sheep"

Oh, and I agree with the second part.


Follow Jesus spiritually. The Earthly beacon was a physical representation of the spiritual.

May God be praised!


LIVE THE KINGDOM NOW!!


05-17-2011 11:39 PM
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COMankind
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RE: How could Jesus already "have other sheep"

man hu Wrote:
And other sheep I am having (imperfect i.e. continuous, not aldeady done) which is not out of this pen, and those it is necessary for me to lead.
He already had some sheep not from the Mosaic pen, like the Samaritan woman and her village, the woman from Syracuse, the Centurion with his servant and more were yet to come.


Well, this is how I viewed it too. But I see sheep, goats and wolves, nothing else named in this historical analogy in scripture. So those that haven't heard the word of Christ yet live a loving, merciful life... what are they?

I watched a documentary about Amish with my family, and asked them afterward if they viewed the Amish as "worldly" (the JW label) - it was not a simple yes. A bit hypocritical to refer to someone that refuses electricity and zippers as clinging to Satans world. Isn't this the same mentality as how Christians unilaterally view any other faith as goats?


philia, COMankind

"The tent of God is with mankind" - Rev 21:3

05-18-2011 01:01 AM
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Acts5v29
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Post: #6
RE: How could Jesus already "have other sheep"

COMankind Wrote:
After speaking with a few pastors, I've noticed a common theme with the Christian faith...that salvation relies on a version of the following: 'follow Christ' 'through the blood of Christ' 'grace of Christ' etc. This means ultimately that only those who profess to be Christians can have the opportunity to gain salvation.


    Undoubtedly there is no salvation through anyone else (Acts 4:12), but when this era ends and God rescues everyone alive, then all will have that opportunity to follow the Son whom He will have placed over us.

    We who follow our Lord now have a tremendous advantage, but the personal salvation issue has been misplaced out of time: people who have died haven't "missed the boat", nor have non-Christians when God intervenes to save us. God is even handed with a kindness and perfect justice which 1,900 years of worldly religion has hidden from us.


Acts5v29


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05-18-2011 10:35 AM
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e-magine
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RE: How could Jesus already "have other sheep"

Dear COM!
...Thank you for saying this,
... "Can't anyone, of any faith, be a sheep...without ever knowing Jesus? Do they really need to follow the beacon by way of an earthly shepherd (Christian religion) or do they simply need to follow the principles of love and mercy that he taught i.e. follow Jesus spiritually?"

This is a thought that transcends religion and is born from Holy Spirit!


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Henry Ward Beecher-1872 Preacher of Plymouth Church, Brooklyn, in his home later bought by C.H. Russell.
He is looking at the Brooklyn Bridge,,,, is it the way into, or, out of Brooklyn for you?
05-18-2011 12:09 PM
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gogh
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Post: #8
RE: How could Jesus already "have other sheep"

Dances With Wolves and Kicking Bird Visit a Sacred Place (with deleted footage)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTc0o-S7tgQ

:coffeeread:


"......."This is my Son, whom I have chosen. Keep listening to him!" Luke 9:35
05-18-2011 01:10 PM
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COMankind
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RE: How could Jesus already "have other sheep"

exactly Gogh. Thanks, great exclamation point.

gogh Wrote:
Dances With Wolves and Kicking Bird Visit a Sacred Place (with deleted footage)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTc0o-S7tgQ

:coffeeread:


philia, COMankind

"The tent of God is with mankind" - Rev 21:3

05-18-2011 01:25 PM
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e-magine
Disciple of Newness


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Post: #10
RE: How could Jesus already "have other sheep"

I get it!


avatar:
Henry Ward Beecher-1872 Preacher of Plymouth Church, Brooklyn, in his home later bought by C.H. Russell.
He is looking at the Brooklyn Bridge,,,, is it the way into, or, out of Brooklyn for you?
05-18-2011 03:20 PM
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COMankind
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RE: How could Jesus already "have other sheep"

e-magine Wrote:
I get it!


It is encouraging isn't it?

When I see Christian religions, especially televangelists, on missionary tours to convert primitive tribes to Christianity - it really makes me cringe. To me, it seems like those tribes are the only ones that have it right, and we all need to learn from them.

anyhooo...

There are so many beautiful people, sadly imperfect, in this world. Its a shame that the few rotten ones spoil it for the whole bunch.


philia, COMankind

"The tent of God is with mankind" - Rev 21:3

05-18-2011 09:47 PM
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gogh
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RE: How could Jesus already "have other sheep"

Re: "When I see Christian religions,..."

Generally, imo, Christians religions have gotten (get) in the way of coming to know the way..."I am the way"....May all, past, present and future come to know The Way...Praise be to our Father and our Master Jesus the Christ.

I appreciate different cultures (past, present, etc.), expressions of reverence toward things perceived of spirit, truth, etc.

Can one ever get enough of reading our Shepherds words...:

John 14:6...

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one cometh unto the Father, but by me.
If ye had known me, ye would have known my Father also: from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and dost thou not know me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; how sayest thou, Show us the Father?
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I say unto you I speak not from myself: but the Father abiding in me doeth his works.
Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto the Father.
And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
If ye shall ask anything in my name, that will I do.
If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments.
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may be with you for ever,
even the Spirit of truth: whom the world cannot receive; for it beholdeth him not, neither knoweth him: ye know him; for he abideth with you, and shall be in you.
I will not leave you desolate: I come unto you.
Yet a little while, and the world beholdeth me no more; but ye behold me: because I live, ye shall live also.
In that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself unto him."

Very humbling yet fills one with gratitude.......yes!!!


Christian love and appreciation to all lovers of the way, the truth, the life.

gogh


"......."This is my Son, whom I have chosen. Keep listening to him!" Luke 9:35
05-19-2011 01:12 AM
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e-magine
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Post: #13
RE: How could Jesus already "have other sheep"

Finer words have never been spoken! Thanks for that gogh!


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Henry Ward Beecher-1872 Preacher of Plymouth Church, Brooklyn, in his home later bought by C.H. Russell.
He is looking at the Brooklyn Bridge,,,, is it the way into, or, out of Brooklyn for you?
05-19-2011 10:59 AM
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Beau Wetini
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RE: How could Jesus already "have other sheep"

That was an Epically Beautiful post bro Gogh....and I am in total agreement with it!

Thanks! And praise the Lord!


LIVE THE KINGDOM NOW!!


05-19-2011 09:25 PM
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COMankind
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RE: How could Jesus already "have other sheep"

Its interesting, but I really would have expected more thoughts like man-hu's making the case that the sheep Jesus referred to were a vastly smaller community of those that he directly interacted with.

Man-Hu, the point you make is really quite valid and worth discussing further IMO.

Because, if we determine that his sheep were scattered around the globe, then the reality is quite enlightening...as the comments are pointing out.


philia, COMankind

"The tent of God is with mankind" - Rev 21:3

05-19-2011 11:32 PM
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