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How could Jesus already "have other sheep"
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COMankind
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Post: #61
RE: How could Jesus already "have other sheep"

Hi Isaiah

Isaiah 43:10 Wrote:
Who are the "Gentiles" really? Doesn't the term encompass people of all nations as distinguished from the "sons of Israel" or "Jews?" How do you feel that the Scriptures brought out in post #46 bear on such people as the Aborigines? I find them very encouraging. Thoughts?


I thought all of those verses agreed with the idea that anyone can reach out to God directly. Me personally - I consider this to be a cornerstone of the "gospel" - inclusive, not exclusive.

Rom. 2:14-16: Do instinctively the things of the Law - Instinct obviously doesn't lead one to celebrate the Passover, perform sacrifices, or even acknowledge sacrifices. So, a great deal of hope for the Aborigine.

Rom. 5:13: Sin is not charged when there is no Law - Critical concept, isn't it? When Jesus died, he basically brought an end to the Law, and thus the sin associated with it. Aborigines? Well, they just keep on living, and they do 'instinctively' the things of law, and are held accountable to the law on hearts.

Eccl 3:11 is particularly beautiful, that eternity is basically pre-programmed into all of us.

Words like these can apply to anyone (Jew and non-Jew, i.e. the entire world of mankind) - But we must remember that when the words were written, there was a 'limited' view of mankind.

In other words, when we today say "all of mankind" we refer to the population of earth. We know of nothing else - it is fact. But what if man existed on another planet? Then the term "mankind" would take on a different meaning.

Quote:
Paul said the preaching was completed.

I've noticed this comment more than once on this thread, but I didn't see any Scripture posted to support it. Is this an idea that was decided on in another thread? Could someone kindly provide a link or a reference? Thank you!


"Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant." - Col 1:21-23

In kindness.


philia, COMankind

"The tent of God is with mankind" - Rev 21:3

05-28-2011 09:22 PM
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COMankind
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Post: #62
RE: How could Jesus already "have other sheep"

BTW, I really enjoy Isaiah chapter 1. It seems to dovetail perfectly with Romans 2 & 5, as well as Jesus' illustration of washing the cup (Luke 11:37-41)

Isaiah 1:2,3
Hear, O heavens! Listen, O earth!
For the Lord has spoken:
“I reared children and brought them up,
but they have rebelled against me.
The ox knows his master,
the donkey his owner’s manger,
but Israel does not know,
my people do not understand.”

11-17
“The multitude of your sacrifices—
what are they to me?” says the Lord.
I have more than enough of burnt offerings,
of rams and the fat of fattened animals;
I have no pleasure
in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.

When you come to appear before me,
who has asked this of you,
this trampling of my courts?
Stop bringing meaningless offerings!
Your incense is detestable to me.
New Moons, Sabbaths and convocations—
I cannot bear your evil assemblies.
Your New Moon festivals and your appointed feasts
my soul hates.
They have become a burden to me;
I am weary of bearing them.
When you spread out your hands in prayer,
I will hide my eyes from you;
even if you offer many prayers,
I will not listen.
Your hands are full of blood;
wash and make yourselves clean.
Take your evil deeds
out of my sight!
Stop doing wrong,
learn to do right!
Seek justice,
encourage the oppressed.
Defend the cause of the fatherless,
plead the case of the widow.
"

Animal sacrifices had no value, unless the people performing them were doing good. As a matter of fact, the sacrifices were not even necessary (God had enough of them) - doing right was all that really mattered. Stop looking for faith and salvation in physical things like festivals and blood. Look upward and inward.


philia, COMankind

"The tent of God is with mankind" - Rev 21:3

05-28-2011 10:12 PM
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Beau Wetini
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Post: #63
RE: How could Jesus already "have other sheep"

Hey COMankind -- are you an Aussie?


LIVE THE KINGDOM NOW!!


05-28-2011 11:09 PM
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Beau Wetini
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Post: #64
RE: How could Jesus already "have other sheep"

wolfie Wrote:
Hi Interpretum ..Beau and I were playing off each other--or at least me him--I was being ironic too but Beau knows I knew what he was saying..I thank you so much tho for the explanation..I sound serious sometimes when I am not--(just one of my super powers :D )



Yep - sis Wolfski gets it! :D


That view, although I think I did stretch it a tad, sounds waaaaaaaay too harsh.

And if it is true - then I dont want to serve a God like that.


LIVE THE KINGDOM NOW!!


05-28-2011 11:12 PM
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COMankind
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Post: #65
RE: How could Jesus already "have other sheep"

Beau Wetini Wrote:
Hey COMankind -- are you an Aussie?


Nope, not an Aussie. I just randomly picked an ancient tribe...
But, on my next business trip to Perth...you in the area?


philia, COMankind

"The tent of God is with mankind" - Rev 21:3

05-29-2011 01:08 AM
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Isaiah 43:10
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Post: #66
RE: How could Jesus already "have other sheep"

COMankind Wrote:
I thought all of those verses agreed with the idea that anyone can reach out to God directly. Me personally - I consider this to be a cornerstone of the "gospel" - inclusive, not exclusive.

Rom. 2:14-16: Do instinctively the things of the Law - Instinct obviously doesn't lead one to celebrate the Passover, perform sacrifices, or even acknowledge sacrifices. So, a great deal of hope for the Aborigine.


Hi COMankind,

I KNEW we reached some of the same conclusions! We just take different routes to get there.

Warm regards,

peacelily

(I'm hoping my request for an ID change will go through soon--Isaiah 43:10 was my old ID from e-jw)

05-29-2011 02:26 AM
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COMankind
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Post: #67
RE: How could Jesus already "have other sheep"

"Then came the Feast of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter, and Jesus was in the temple area walking in Solomon’s Colonnade. The Jews gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.” -

Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father’s name speak for me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.” John 10:22-30


Some have made the point that we are all sheep till the last trumpet...when they are marked as goats. Others have made the point that when Jesus said he had other sheep, that he was referring to a select group of Gentiles in that time, who he contacted directly. The verses above in John seem to strike an interesting balance.

First off: The reason why they didn't believe is BECAUSE they were not Jesus' sheep. Not the other way around.

Secondly: They were sheep, but apparently not belonging to Jesus. Who gave them to him? His Father.

The conclusion for me: These sheep he was talking to, the Jews, were under the care of his Father the entire time. (Ez 34) He was slowly being given his role as king/mediator as he adopted more sheep under his care. Once he took care of those around him there, he was able to take his place in the heavens as a spiritual shepherd/king over mankind.

Side note: These sheep who followed Jesus, they appeared to be 'selected' by his Father - not unlike the Apostles were. As if they were a limited edition for a specific cause...otherwise, predestination is the answer (which I can't swallow Calvinism myself) Note that nobody could take them from the Father's hand, a true sense that the Jews who did not follow Jesus were being taken care of.

If we believe that Jesus and the Father are the same person, then Jesus gave himself sheep. Which obviously is another conversation :)

-----------
I just noticed the NWT translation of John 10:29
"What my Father has given me is something greater than all other things, and no one can snatch them out of the hand of the Father." - they completely removed the concept of the Father giving sheep to the Son.


philia, COMankind

"The tent of God is with mankind" - Rev 21:3

05-30-2011 06:20 AM
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