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Papal Claims Of Authority
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Interpretum
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Papal Claims Of Authority

I thought this was a particularly interesting link:
http://biblelight.net/claims.htm

The coins alone should be sufficient proof that the Papacy is connected to the "little horn" of Daniel 7.

If you can't read it all, here's a few bits worth looking at...

- The triple crown (the "little horn" defeating THREE kingdoms)

- The coin minted in 1879 with the woman (representing the Catholic Church) and the triple crown, with the inscription in Latin, "THE NATION AND KINGDOM THAT WILL NOT SERVE ME WILL PERISH". Sounds amazingly like Revelation 18:7.

- The worship of the Pope by the bishops, in contrast to Christ washing Peter's feet.

"Christ and the pope are here presented opposite each other. Please note the case of each. It will not be difficult for you to decide whether or not the pope is the Antichrist, who is against our Lord Jesus Christ." - Martin Luther, Passional of Christ and Antichrist.

"As she glorified herself and lived in luxury, so give her a like measure of torment and mourning, since in her heart she says, 'I sit as a queen, I am no widow, and mourning I shall never see.' (Rev 18:7)


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05-21-2011 02:18 PM
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Interpretum
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RE: Papal Claims Of Authority

I think everyone should also read Russell's view on the matter. It's a long chapter, but a fascinating read, although you'll need a strong stomach:
http://www.bible411.com/sits/volume2/v2study9.htm


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05-23-2011 10:48 AM
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Willa
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RE: Papal Claims Of Authority

Pretty convincing, eh? Wow, that man was a prolific writer. If I had a staff that took care of everything else, I, too, could be prolific.
:)-
I wish I had a wife to cook and clean and wash my clothes...
and do yard and garden work... I have other things to think about... lol.

:)


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05-23-2011 11:37 AM
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ablebodiedman
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RE: Papal Claims Of Authority

Interpretum,

I personally think many of the Papal and Roman Catholic transgressions are so very blatant.

In fact they are too blatant!

If any of the laity actually read the bible and understood the history they should immediately see it.

I cannot see how any "called one" could be misled by those things.

Its too easy.

A puppet show.

A carefully designed red herring.

The red herring is a smoke and mirror side show that captures an audience well beyond the Catholic laity.

Its designed to mislead people who do take the time to read the bible who in my opinion would not include the Catholic laity.

A red herring which makes the real "called ones" complacent, not realizing that they are being misled by the same show while the thief enters their own house.

Matthew 24:43
“But know one thing, that if the householder had known in what watch the thief was coming, he would have kept awake and not allowed his house to be broken into.



In Christ

abe


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05-23-2011 01:09 PM
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Beau Wetini
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RE: Papal Claims Of Authority

The Papacy reminds me of the British Monarchy - full of pomp and ceremony, but mostly just full of B.S.


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05-23-2011 04:10 PM
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Interpretum
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RE: Papal Claims Of Authority

Hi Beau

Beau Wetini Wrote:
The Papacy reminds me of the British Monarchy - full of pomp and ceremony, but mostly just full of B.S.


I'd agree with you, although that B.S. has cost the lives of an estimated 50 million Christians (according to Russell's figures, obviously an estimate).


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05-23-2011 04:20 PM
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Interpretum
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RE: Papal Claims Of Authority

Willa Wrote:
Pretty convincing, eh? Wow, that man was a prolific writer. If I had a staff that took care of everything else, I, too, could be prolific.
:)-
I wish I had a wife to cook and clean and wash my clothes...
and do yard and garden work... I have other things to think about... lol.


I agree, pretty convincing. On the issue of cooking and cleaning, I'm afraid I can't help there :D


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Latest post: Daniel 9 And The Seventy (70) Weeks - How Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy was fulfilled.
05-23-2011 04:23 PM
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Interpretum
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RE: Papal Claims Of Authority

Hi Abe

I don't quite understand what you mean. A couple of things...

First of all, over ONE BILLION people follow the Pope, who claims all authority over Christians... so blatant or not, it is an EFFECTIVE deception.

These are souls who are being hindered from having a full relationship with Christ, because... well, they don't really *need* him given they have Mary and all the saints to intercede for them.

Second, from the time of Constantine until the invention of the printing press, most of the Christian world was under the strong grip of the Papacy, and the Bible was gradually FORBIDDEN to most of the common people. When you don't know scripture, except from the scraps your bishop gives you, it is easy to be deceived.

Let's face it, it took until 1521 (Martin Luther) until someone from the Christian community actually stood up to the Church in a big way... over 1200 years since the time of Constantine!

You also seem to forget that the only reason you can read the Bible today is precisely because of their struggles. The men who translated the Bible for us were often burned to the stake, or in the case of Luther, had a death sentence over his head for much of his life.

I guess my point is, the Papal power fulfills all the requirements of the "little horn", and yet you continue to look for a bogeyman within the Watchtower Society.

The Bible doesn't say the "little horn" or the "man of lawlessness" or indeed the "wild beast" would be SUBTLE.

"And he will speak even words against the Most High, and he will harass continually the holy ones themselves of the Supreme One. And he will intend to change times and law, and they will be given into his hand for a time, and times and half a time." (Dan 7:25)

Nowhere does it say he would be subtle. This entity would be BLATANT in its blasphemy.

Similarly with the second wild beast (which I believe is the same thing as the "little horn"):

"And I saw another wild beast ascending out of the earth, and it had two horns like a lamb, but it began speaking as a dragon. 12 And it exercises all the authority of the first wild beast in its sight. And it makes the earth and those who dwell in it worship the first wild beast, whose death-stroke got healed. 13 And it performs great signs, so that it should even make fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the sight of mankind.

14 And it misleads those who dwell on the earth, because of the signs that were granted it to perform in the sight of the wild beast, while it tells those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the wild beast that had the sword-stroke and yet revived. 15 And there was granted it to give breath to the image of the wild beast, so that the image of the wild beast should both speak and cause to be killed all those who would not in any way worship the image of the wild beast." (Rev 13:11-15)


This is not subtle deception. It is deception by FORCE, and by LYING SIGNS... which precisely fits with the way the Papacy has acted, even refashioning the Roman Empire under its authority, and rebranding it the HOLY Roman Empire!

This is why Paul could say the mystery was ALREADY AT WORK in his day, until the restraint was taken away:

"Let no one seduce YOU in any manner, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction. 4 He is set in opposition and lifts himself up over everyone who is called “god” or an object of reverence, so that he sits down in the temple of The God, publicly showing himself to be a god. 5 Do YOU not remember that, while I was yet with YOU, I used to tell YOU these things?

6 And so now YOU know the thing that acts as a restraint, with a view to his being revealed in his own due time. 7 True, the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work; but only till he who is right now acting as a restraint gets to be out of the way."


Again, where is the subtle part of this? He lifts himself up over every god, in the temple of God (as you point out, Christianity)... proclaiming himself to be (a) god! This is PRECISELY what the Papacy has done.

I think you are stumbled here is because the match seems too obvious. But isn't that the point? The Papacy FULFILLS these prophecies!

And remember, that over a billion potential Christian souls are stumbled at the thought that their father (the Pope) could have anything to do with these prophecies.

So too blatant, yes... but that's exactly what the prophecies say would happen. This entity would be BLATANT in its blasphemy, while at the same time sitting in the Christian temple.

You do not lift yourself up over every god without being BLATANT.

Those links show that the Papacy is BLATANT in every way.

For example, did you see the picture of the coins they minted, celebrating the slaughter of the Hugenots?

The ONLY reason this doesn't happen today, is because the spirit of Christ's mouth has largely defeated them, and the secular authorities have, for the main part (and as foretold), turned against her and burned up her fleshy parts.


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05-23-2011 05:02 PM
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AlienResident
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RE: Papal Claims Of Authority

Quote:
These are souls who are being hindered from having a full relationship with Christ, because... well, they don't really *need* him given they have Mary and all the saints to intercede for them.


Greetings Interpretum,

I was amazed recently to read some strange facts regarding Italy and chritianity.

For example, there are more people in Japan who call themselves christians than in Italy.

Also, to Italians, Jesus ranks seventh in sainthood.

AR


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05-23-2011 06:34 PM
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ablebodiedman
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RE: Papal Claims Of Authority

Interpretum Wrote:
Hi Abe

I don't quite understand what you mean. A couple of things...

First of all, over ONE BILLION people follow the Pope, who claims all authority over Christians... so blatant or not, it is an EFFECTIVE deception.


Interpretum,

Do you think that some actual "called ones" have been misled into becoming a Roman Catholic considering the blatant transgressions?

Do you think THE temple of God (the Christian Temple) has anything at all to do with Roman Catholcism?

Sure the Pope can say all those things however, I do not think he could get anywhere near the actual Christian Temple, let alone enter it.

One Billion people follow the Pope because they have not read the bible.

If they had read the bible then they should immediately see that it has nothing to do with Christianity.


In Christ

abe


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05-23-2011 07:36 PM
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Interpretum
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RE: Papal Claims Of Authority

Hi Abe

ablebodiedman Wrote:
Do you think that some actual "called ones" have been misled into becoming a Roman Catholic considering the blatant transgressions?


Well, I'm not entirely sure of your definition of "called ones". I believe ALL true Christians are anointed, and not just a select few. It is not my place to determine who is and who isn't a true Christian, but I'm sure some there are and were some genuine Christians among Catholics.

If there weren't, what need would there be to "get out of her, my people"? (Rev 18:4). God is addressing His people within "Babylon The Great".

Quote:
Do you think THE temple of God (the Christian Temple) has anything at all to do with Roman Catholcism?


Well, you need to consider where the Pope came from. The chapter I linked to of Russell's book gives an excellent summary of how the Papacy developed. It developed WITHIN the Christian community (the temple of God). In fact, the Pope is first of all the "bishop of Rome", i.e. the head of the Roman congregation, which existed in Paul's day.

The Papal office gained its power gradually by asserting supremacy over the other churches, and then when Constantine moved his capital to Constinople, the power vacuum in Rome was filled by the bishop of Rome, who gradually acquired more secular powers.

However, it is historically the case that the Papacy developed from WITHIN the Christian community, the "temple of God".

Quote:
Sure the Pope can say all those things however, I do not think he could get anywhere near the actual Christian Temple, let alone enter it.

One Billion people follow the Pope because they have not read the bible.

If they had read the bible then they should immediately see that it has nothing to do with Christianity.


You're right, and that is why it is the "man of lawlessness", the "son of destruction".
It is an IMPOSTER, as scripture implies... horns like a LAMB, but speaking as a DRAGON.


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05-23-2011 09:06 PM
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ablebodiedman
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RE: Papal Claims Of Authority

Beau Wetini Wrote:
The Papacy reminds me of the British Monarchy - full of pomp and ceremony, but mostly just full of B.S.



Yep, Its all for show.

there is nothing real about it.


.


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05-23-2011 09:41 PM
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COMankind
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RE: Papal Claims Of Authority

Mother Theresa lauded the pope. She was a beautiful person. How can she be condemned for being in a specific religion? "all good things come from God" Why would she have needed to leave it, if she was clearly able to love God and neighbor as a good catholic? I'm no fan of the church, but for all of its faults, it certainly has accomplished much good as well. We have all been taught to vilify them, and should be cautious. People are imperfect people.

Religion will always say "I have the answer" - and there will always be people who are too mentally preoccupied to bother with finding the answer themselves, they'd prefer to just pick one.

Religion exists because people want it to. People want and love the pope, like they love a crucifix. When people stand up and leave the church, the church changes. Jehovah's Witnesses WANT to follow the GB, that is why the GB thrives. Why men like Mr. Camping can easily shepherd so many people into a pit. Not because of Satan, or because of prophecy, but because imperfect people desire it.

Each of us innately craves a spiritual shepherd. When we learn to reach out to Jesus directly, everything fits into place. When we don't, and look to man, we either get frustrated and lost- looking to blame someone, or we stay content with the spiritual scraps we're given. The finger always points to self. I chose to follow man, man didn't trap me. This is the meekness and humility necessary to progress.


philia, COMankind

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05-23-2011 10:37 PM
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COMankind
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RE: Papal Claims Of Authority

BTW Interpretum - your point about connecting the Papacy to prophecy is certainly understandable. Russell and Rutherford obviously grew an entire organization riding (and beating) on the backs of the Papacy.

After reading "the Finished Mystery" by Rutherford & crew, and seeing that they went so far as to identify which Popes rode as the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, the marketing value of their message began to truly sink in for me.

IMO - there is really only one form of religion that misled many, which backed an entire nation and possessed literal supernatural powers, that could ever have been controlled by Satan. The world that Satan controlled was finite.

All three of the following verses use the same Greek term to describe the exact same finite area called "earth" or "world". According to most of Christianity, one out of the three doesn't belong.

"And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. " - Luke 4:5

"And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. " - Rev 12:9

"And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed. " - Luke 2:1

But they are all three talking about the same exact place.


Also keep in mind that the Bible doesn't explicitly say that Satan was leading or controlling the Egyptians. This is assumed based on Luke 4:5. What is interesting is how Pharoah was viewed by Jehovah:

"Speak, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I [am] against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lieth in the midst of his rivers, which hath said, My river [is] mine own, and I have made [it] for myself." - Ezek 29:3

So Pharoah, like Satan, was referred to as "the great dragon"

It's interesting how context and a historical first-person perspective can put a different light on every conversation. I'm off my horse now...


philia, COMankind

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05-24-2011 12:00 AM
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Willa
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Post: #15
RE: Papal Claims Of Authority

COMankind Wrote:
Mother Theresa lauded the pope. She was a beautiful person. How can she be condemned for being in a specific religion? "all good things come from God" Why would she have needed to leave it, if she was clearly able to love God and neighbor as a good catholic? I'm no fan of the church, but for all of its faults, it certainly has accomplished much good as well. We have all been taught to vilify them, and should be cautious. People are imperfect people.

Religion will always say "I have the answer" - and there will always be people who are too mentally preoccupied to bother with finding the answer themselves, they'd prefer to just pick one.

Religion exists because people want it to. People want and love the pope, like they love a crucifix. When people stand up and leave the church, the church changes. Jehovah's Witnesses WANT to follow the GB, that is why the GB thrives. Why men like Mr. Camping can easily shepherd so many people into a pit. Not because of Satan, or because of prophecy, but because imperfect people desire it.

Each of us innately craves a spiritual shepherd. When we learn to reach out to Jesus directly, everything fits into place. When we don't, and look to man, we either get frustrated and lost- looking to blame someone, or we stay content with the spiritual scraps we're given. The finger always points to self. I chose to follow man, man didn't trap me. This is the meekness and humility necessary to progress.

Amen!


:heartbeat: You are my friends! I don't think it just by chance, but by God's Grand Design, that He has guided both our steps... to let your paths cross mine. :heartbeat:
05-24-2011 12:02 AM
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