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MAKARIOS
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Any Input

Hello.

For those of us who are still within the organization, and are not comfortable placing the tracts for the district convention. Do any of you have any ideas on how to avoid placing these things without getting caught?

to be cautious as a serpent, and yet innocent as doves....


MAKARIOS

06-10-2011 06:15 PM
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isomam
In Spite of Many and Much


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RE: Any Input

MAKARIOS Wrote:
Hello.

For those of us who are still within the organization, and are not comfortable placing the tracts for the district convention. Do any of you have any ideas on how to avoid placing these things without getting caught?

to be cautious as a serpent, and yet innocent as doves....


MAKARIOS


hi brother/sister makarios,

from the tone and content of your posts, i surmise that you are both 'blessed' and 'happy.' :thumbup: i do recall that during my last few years before leaving the organization, i would often employ a tactic which i came to label 'smile and nod.' without using words to either confirm or deny what others are saying, suggesting, implying, or inquiring, you are allowing them to draw whatever conclusion(s) they wish. (cautious ... yet innocent.)

could you perhaps be ill ... on days when service groups will be going out to distribute these tracts? (or anything else, for that matter.) :wink: even partial knowledge of watchtower religion's sins against god and humanity is enough to induce illness in most anyone. :whistle:


Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. Of these I am foremost.--1 Timothy 1:15.

Above all things, have INTENSE Love for one another.--1 Peter 4:8.

Sanctify the Christ as Lord in your hearts. ... Hold a good conscience.--1 Peter 3:15, 16.

TRUTH IS SIMPLE.
06-10-2011 08:27 PM
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MAKARIOS
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RE: Any Input

Isomam,

This is a three week event. Can't be sick for 21 days. I'm just trying to gather for ideas....

Nod and smile does work.

I was thinking that perhaps just go to the door, and chat about the bible.....and 'forget' the tract. Take someone who you trust....alone out in service during this time period. Split out maybe and work alone in the field service with that person. Meet people at the doors, go to return visits, talking about the bible. Discussing about the bible....Or maybe go on bible studies and discuss the bible.... That's what i can think of.....

But thought perhaps there may be more ideas out there that people might like to mention.

I've heard this before,
about this tract.....

"I'm gonna be sick for three weeks"
"Oh i'm going to throw up!"

It is am impact for those who have "eyes".......

So it's true, even with given knowledge about the errors in the teachings...and not wanting to be found guilty before Jehovah and his son---- It certainly makes one sick. Satan makes it very difficult for lovers of Jehovah and his son to walk faithfully, but Jehovah always makes the way out.... In one way or another. Always.

The tract has one major error on it. The clay is ABSOLUTELY NOT the united states.

Knowing this, one wouldn't want to place this.

MAKARIOS

06-10-2011 09:50 PM
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isomam
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RE: Any Input

MAKARIOS Wrote:
I was thinking that perhaps just go to the door, and chat about the bible.....and 'forget' the tract. Take someone who you trust....alone out in service during this time period. Split out maybe and work alone in the field service with that person. Meet people at the doors, go to return visits, talking about the bible. Discussing about the bible....Or maybe go on bible studies and discuss the bible.... That's what i can think of.....


those are all great strategies, makarios. god bless.


Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. Of these I am foremost.--1 Timothy 1:15.

Above all things, have INTENSE Love for one another.--1 Peter 4:8.

Sanctify the Christ as Lord in your hearts. ... Hold a good conscience.--1 Peter 3:15, 16.

TRUTH IS SIMPLE.
06-10-2011 10:17 PM
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COMankind
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Post: #5
RE: Any Input

Makarios,

Your heart sounds like it's in the right place...I'm sorry you feel so conflicted.

Please keep in mind, those tracts don't do much good (at least they didnt when I used to distribute them) If people are drawn to spiritual things (they know their masters voice) then the tract won't fool them.

For every one lost sheep that gets baptized there are many others who listen and study that move on to find greener spiritual pastures. For the incredibly rare sheep that actually takes a tract, shows up, asks for a study and gets baptized...well, it's what they wanted. You can't stop them from finding and settling on untruth. If it's not you, it'll be Christian Scientists, Mormons, etc...take your pick.

But if it bothers your conscience, I hate to say this...but blunt is the only way:
You have a long road ahead of you. The duality of that life is hard. If you stay in, then consider accepting the fact that following along as a witness in everything they expect a witness to do isn't wrong...it's just spiritually immature. (like milk vs. Meat) You are a college student in the fifth grade. But if you ever feel like you're breaking the law written on your heart...well, prayer helps, and so do friends :)

In kindness...


philia, COMankind

"The tent of God is with mankind" - Rev 21:3

06-10-2011 11:46 PM
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wolfie
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RE: Any Input

yup--what comankind said. And it is true ''you have a long road ahead.''
Taking me back to 2004 I thought I could remain inside the congregation and be encouraging and supportive and maybe even spiritually helpful in a more profound way However my internal conflict did nothing but grow and it grew in all areas. I remember sitting with my friend ''shirley'' and couldn't talk things over with her as to the changes I was going through and the new realities I was discovering and one day it suddenly hit me she and her husband (our presiding elder) would no longer want me sitting in their kitchen if they knew the real me now. We'd been friends for many years...--sadness engulfed me as well as guilt for being there--it was the last cup of tea I shared with her.

The last meeting I went to was a Memorial. It had been a decision I had made to go to meetings and just be ''discreet.'' But on this Memeorial I managed to cry through the whole thing--the wrongness of it all and my own secrecy was working against me and I knew --this was my last meeting. So in one fell swoop that didn't take very long to achieve I went from one who thought they could do some good by staying ''inside'' to a last cup of tea with my dear friend and my last meeting/ Memorial with All my friends--tough stuff Makarios but the journey is worth it--the rewards are many but it isn't easy. I found the disonance inside much harder and more troublesome and painful than anything going on outside. That is actually what gets to most people--not everyone, of course, but most.

we are here for you :heartbeat:


''In the midst of winter I finally learned that in me there was an invincible summer.'' Albert Camus

''live simply, speak kindly, love unconditionally''
06-11-2011 06:26 AM
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e-magine
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RE: Any Input

Are they asking the friends to report how many they place? Does each publisher get an allotment? Its my observation that at least half of the literature gets stockpiled in the publisher's house and then gets thrown out eventually. People are afraid NOT to pick up their allotment at the KH, but they don't place it. Many don't care either, they are just going through the motions, enjoying the social network that is the JW system. It's all a circus.


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Henry Ward Beecher-1872 Preacher of Plymouth Church, Brooklyn, in his home later bought by C.H. Russell.
He is looking at the Brooklyn Bridge,,,, is it the way into, or, out of Brooklyn for you?
06-11-2011 11:23 AM
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MAKARIOS
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Post: #8
RE: Any Input

CoMankind, Wolfie---

Yes, it is true, a long road ahead, I am aware I will eventually be expelled in due time and so are the others walking in the same path as well. A great example is Jesus Christ. He went through this in his day. No one is greater than our master. Not one person.

Can you imagine how Jesus would have felt while listening to the saducees who did'nt believe in the resurrection or in angels? Their teachings appealed to the wealthy ones, but certainly not to him. Same here, we go to the kingdom Halls and we read the magazines--from that, we hear what the "saducees" or the "pharisees" who are supposedly well versed in the law have to say.

We are in the same boat. Currently there exists Sauducees, Pharisees, and Scribes walking among God's people in our day. Plus, don't forget it was the Pharasees that sent the Priests and Levites to inquire about John The baptist. In this manner, it seems that the Pharasees excercised power over them in Jesus Day.

For those who know they will be expelled, Jehovah's blessing will be with them if they have the right reasons--for the truth.

Jehovah has tremendously blessed me with courage and strength for what's ahead. He did not leave me without help. With the holy spirit, when Jehovah gave eyes and knowledge, I was made stronger more now than ever to stand firm and to keep walking. He can do the same for others too.

Jehovah will take care of his people within such organization. He has taken cared of me spiritually. He has also used me to help the other deserving ones who need to be "taught" inside the congregation discreetly. I can see Jehovah's blessing in this. As long as I'm alive in the congregation, I do my best for Jehovah and for his son and for the sheep. How can I help the sheep if I am dead to them? The end for me is not here yet and they still need to be helped to return to Jehovah to love him with their whole heart, with their whole soul, and with their whole mind.



Makarios

06-11-2011 12:42 PM
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MAKARIOS
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RE: Any Input

emagine,

No, we don't number how many tracts we place at the door. In my congregation any publisher or pioneer can get however many they need. So if the publisher only wants to take two, then he or she can get two. It is up to them.

Makarios

06-11-2011 12:52 PM
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e-magine
Disciple of Newness


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RE: Any Input

Hi Makarios!
As you noticed, I haven't been "out" in a while, though I'm still in good standing, haven't been to a meeting in about a year. I believe when a prominent member goes "silent", it speaks volumes to the rest.
The hard core elders know whats happening, but they don't want to disturb the hornets nest. So they do nothing, and I say nothing!
Honest hearted ones will be led to the Internet! Good luck!
...(yes, it's OK to say that)


avatar:
Henry Ward Beecher-1872 Preacher of Plymouth Church, Brooklyn, in his home later bought by C.H. Russell.
He is looking at the Brooklyn Bridge,,,, is it the way into, or, out of Brooklyn for you?
06-11-2011 02:09 PM
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COMankind
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RE: Any Input

Makarios,

Relying on Holy Spirit is certainly a good plan.

"How can I help the sheep if I am dead to them? " - I am taking this as a literal question and not rhetorical. If it was intended as rhetorical, then my response may seem weird :)

The value of 'death' is certainly relative. Jesus, Gandhi and MLK all had a greater impact after they died. Although, I'm sure Gandhi and MLK would have preferred living. Stephen, Job's pain, Isaac's willingness, this list goes on. Nobody WANTS to suffer and die, but sometimes you have to in order to be heard. The benefit as a Witness - we can 'die' but still live...just trying to see the half full glass on that one.

When Peter was with Gentiles, he ate & drank with them. When he was with Jews, he treated Gentiles as unclean. He did this to make the Jews feel comfortable and avoid unnecessary conflict. But Paul had a few choice words for Peter. Peter's desire to be 'in between both worlds' made him luke warm. Remaining Hot or Cold is the key in this situation, and it sounds like you have a good plan to find the right balance for yourself.

in kindness


philia, COMankind

"The tent of God is with mankind" - Rev 21:3

06-11-2011 03:05 PM
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fzubair
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Post: #12
RE: Any Input

isomam Wrote:

MAKARIOS Wrote:
Hello.

For those of us who are still within the organization, and are not comfortable placing the tracts for the district convention. Do any of you have any ideas on how to avoid placing these things without getting caught?

to be cautious as a serpent, and yet innocent as doves....
MAKARIOS


hi brother/sister makarios,

from the tone and content of your posts, i surmise that you are both 'blessed' and 'happy.' :thumbup: i do recall that during my last few years before leaving the organization, i would often employ a tactic which i came to label 'smile and nod.' without using words to either confirm or deny what others are saying, suggesting, implying, or inquiring, you are allowing them to draw whatever conclusion(s) they wish. (cautious ... yet innocent.)

could you perhaps be ill ... on days when service groups will be going out to distribute these tracts? (or anything else, for that matter.) :wink: even partial knowledge of watchtower religion's sins against god and humanity is enough to induce illness in most anyone. :whistle:


What about the Command of Jesus "let your Yes be yes and No be no for whatever is in excess of this is from the Devil"

Is it not obvious to everyone that those who insist on remaining inside the organization or those who are trying to support them who want to stay inside the false security will have to use half-truths, deviousness, and at times even lies in order to maintain status quo.

In such a situation Is it not far, far better to dos as you all say "Don't throw the Baby with the Water" But I say Throw the Dirty Baby with its polluted water once and for alls.

Anyways thats me

06-13-2011 01:41 AM
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MAKARIOS
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Post: #13
RE: Any Input

What about the Command of Jesus "let your Yes be yes and No be no for whatever is in excess of this is from the Devil"

The bible also encourages to make a "defense". With such defense, comes explantation for your stand. So there will be times that merely a "Yes", or a "No" will not be sufficient. Here are one of the examples: Stephen.

Is it not obvious to everyone that those who insist on remaining inside the organization or those who are trying to support them who want to stay inside the false security will have to use half-truths, deviousness, and at times even lies in order to maintain status quo.

"Is it not obvious to everyone...."
WILL HAVE TO USE.... Half truths? deviousness? Lies? ----in order to main status quo?

Not all who are stay inside to the false security---do half truths, deviousness, or lie. We are in the time of the Clay,--and as the "clay" rises with his power, sadly, many do give in and accept the 'mark'. On the other hand, few rip it out of their right eye, and their right hand. Doing so, they do not become slaves of men and worship the "image" that's been set before them. From that, the 'veil' has been lifted off their 'hearts' so now they can 'see' what's really going on, and be delivered from the "lion's mouth".

Jehovah knows whose hearts are loyal to him and his son. These are the ones who speak the truth and stand for truth. They are careful. It is not certainly a easy road. As for status quo, such honest hearted ones, Jehovah knows which one refrains from pursuing "ranks". He knows the 'secret person of the heart'. Do you?

Jesus was very much born in the nation of Jews---and he was In such a nation that insulted Jehovah. Many Jehovah's witnesses are in the same situation.

You may not believe me, but I do have Jehovah's Blessing that i remain as long as i do. Many are now learning and are being helped to 'see', and to walk in the waters of truth---fixing their eyes intently on Jesus Christ, not on man. Simon Peter was told to feed the lamb and to feed the sheep. The lamb is not the one to be shephered, but it was the sheep. Many are thrown about and skinned, and are hungry.

It is easy to be sour and angry--and bitter towards Jehovah's witnesses--and think they are ALL the same. Truth is, not all are.


MAKARIOS

06-13-2011 12:54 PM
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COMankind
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Post: #14
RE: Any Input

Makarios,

It is certainly a noble cause to try and heal from within. Each person must do what they feel is right, otherwise how can we ever exercise our heart?

Nobody can tell you what to do, what is right, what is wrong. It sounds like you're looking to Jesus as your shepherd, which is certainly a beautiful thing to hear from any sheep.

Those you speak to and counsel: There is a delicate balance, as you now doubt are aware, between 'shepherding' and 'stumbling' Many Witnesses abandon faith altogether after having their eyes 'opened', others recoil and become belligerent in their faith - i.e. "I MUST follow the slave, no matter how wrong they are." In the end, those are worse off than they were before.

Jesus is the actual shepherd, and we wouldn't want to do anything to stumble his sheep. So if you're going to do this, I'd recommend reading the book of James and Proverbs on how to find balance in attempting to help the shepherd find his lost sheep.

in loving kindness


philia, COMankind

"The tent of God is with mankind" - Rev 21:3

06-13-2011 03:31 PM
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MAKARIOS
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Post: #15
RE: Any Input

Hello CoMankind,

There is a delicate balance........ between 'shepherding' and 'stumbling
'

Very True.

Many Witnesses abandon faith altogether after having their eyes 'opened', others recoil and become belligerent in their faith - i.e. "I MUST follow the slave, no matter how wrong they are." In the end, those are worse off than they were before.

Sadly, Very True.

Jesus is the actual shepherd, and we wouldn't want to do anything to stumble his sheep.

Very True.

So if you're going to do this, I'd recommend reading the book of James and Proverbs on how to find balance in attempting to help the shepherd find his lost sheep.[/u]

James, O yes,---Very true!

Makarios

06-13-2011 03:37 PM
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