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"The Leaders and the Led"
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Willa
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"The Leaders and the Led"

Quote:

Quote:
..."There are two general paradigms – the leaders and the led. Due to a system of things that does little to empower independent thinking based on genuine values many persons assume that the “leaders” actually know what they are doing and complacently fall in line thinking they are doing their part in the master plan."
veritas re



quote of the day!



New "Gem of the Week"!

Should we also acknowledge a third 'general' group - independents, being neither leaders nor those led by human leaders - those who place no human above Christ Jesus, our One Leader? (Matthew 23:10, Luke 22:26)

Merriam Webster: independent - 1: not dependent: as a (1): not subject to control by others : SELF-GOVERNING (2) : not affiliated with a larger controlling unit b (1) : not requiring or relying on something else : not contingent (2) : not looking to others for one's opinions or for guidance in conduct (3) : not bound by or committed to a political party -- d : showing a desire for freedom...

... sounds like a lot of us!

Actually, there's an entry already for a religious/political group called The Independents!
(1644) 1: a sectarian of an English religious movement for congregational autonomy originating in the late 16th century, giving rise to Congregationalists, Baptists, and Friends, and forming one of the major political groupings of the period of Cromwell.

What I feel I'm a part of, being independent from sectarianism et al, is far from political in the worldly sense... but it really is unity in an entirely spiritual sense... :))


:heartbeat: You are my friends! I don't think it just by chance, but by God's Grand Design, that He has guided both our steps... to let your paths cross mine. :heartbeat:
06-11-2011 06:22 PM
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gogh
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RE: "The Leaders and the Led"

2 Corinthians 3:16...

"But whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is removed.
Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Lord's Spirit is, there is freedom.
As all of us reflect the glory of the Lord with unveiled faces, we are being transformed into the same image with ever-increasing glory by the Lord's Spirit."


.


"......."This is my Son, whom I have chosen. Keep listening to him!" Luke 9:35
06-11-2011 06:42 PM
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veritas re
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RE: "The Leaders and the Led"

Willa Wrote:
Should we also acknowledge a third 'general' group - independents, being neither leaders nor those led by human leaders - those who place no human above Christ Jesus, our One Leader? (Matthew 23:10, Luke 22:26)


But as regards the people who are knowing their God, they will prevail and act effectively. And as regards those having insight among the people, they will impart understanding to the many.
Daniel 11:32-35


In the end times Daniel said there would be “those having insight” – and that these ones would “prevail and act effectively”, that they would “impart understanding to the many” .

Have “insight” into what? “Act effectively” - against what? - “impart understanding” to whom? How would this happen? The idea of a third group – the independents – I agree fits the scriptural theme where persons look toward Jesus as Leader and that become plugged into what Jesus said to the apostles - “and the holy spirit will lead you into all the truth”.

Satan’s world is built upon dependence – dependence upon the structures and systems that have been put in place for the purpose of deceiving the masses of mankind. Organizations and individuals combine in such a manner as to derail independent analytical thought – the kind of thought that can be had only by being plugged into the things of the spirit, the high ideals of El himself. This is why only Jesus is Leader, because he emulates the accurate core principles of the Father – who is himself truly independent and able to communicate the core cosmic principles he has put in place. These “ones” - “act effectively” - in seeing through Satan’s deceptions and are active in articulating to others the insights that the spirit leads them to see.

Everything else – the entire world system – is in the power of the wicked one and is in some way to some extent or another dependent on creeds or ideas that are not from the Father but from the wicked one. Clarity of thought around core principles are key to the success of persons seeking everlasting life, and I agree that there is a third group that because of their independent mindset are able to plug into the things of the spirit.

I theorize that knowing God and the Son – as Jesus points out - means way more than we think because when we know someone well enough we are able to intuitively figure out how they would think about some topic or action, that moves us past the outward appearance and into the real deal of spiritual understanding such that the Son is able to attain, and “independence” of thought is the only way to get us there because we become persons able to do the hard math that it takes to get there. Potential influence on others must not be overlooked, since what we think and say has an effect on the thinking of others, thus the importance of our carefully thinking through all things and using our independence in the right way. Daniel said that the influence has the ability to “impart understanding” and thus we should always carefully consider our words – as independents – by seeking to make sure our independence is dependent on pure words of truth.



v r


"...and YOU will know the truth, and the truth will set YOU free."
06-27-2011 02:26 AM
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ablebodiedman
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RE: "The Leaders and the Led"

veritas re Wrote:
But as regards the people who are knowing their God, they will prevail and act effectively. And as regards those having insight among the people, they will impart understanding to the many.
Daniel 11:32-35


In the end times Daniel said there would be “those having insight” – and that these ones would “prevail and act effectively”, that they would “impart understanding to the many” .

Have “insight” into what? “Act effectively” - against what? - “impart understanding” to whom? How would this happen?


vr,

Good questions.

In my opinion the ones having insight will have seen the daily sacrifice removed and the disgusting thing put in its place.

That is the context.

How does a Christian act and prevail after his temple has been profaned?

Daniel gives some good clues:

Daniel 11:32-33
And as regards those having insight among the people, they will impart understanding to the many


Daniel also shows that the daily sacrifice will be restored:

Daniel 12:11-12
11 "And from the time that the constant [feature] has been removed and there has been a placing of the disgusting thing that is causing desolation, there will be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 "Happy is the one who is keeping in expectation and who arrives at the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days!

Which in my opinion means the "disgusting thing" must also be removed.


Daniel 8:13-14
13 And I got to hear a certain holy one speaking, and another holy one proceeded to say to the particular one who was speaking: "How long will the vision be of the constant [feature] and of the transgression causing desolation, to make both [the] holy place and [the] army things to trample on?" 14 So he said to me: "Until two thousand three hundred evenings [and] mornings; and [the] holy place will certainly be brought into its right condition."


If we are to prevail then this should be the goal towards which I think we should act.

I believe we are engaged in a spiritual battle of immense proportions.

Also think Revelation gives some good clues as to who we are battling against:

Revelation 17:13-14
14 These will battle with the Lamb, but, because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, the Lamb will conquer them. Also, those called and chosen and faithful with him [will do so].

I believe it is the 10 kings who are accountable for removing the "daily sacrifice"

I also believe that these are the "kings" mentioned in Ezekeil:

Ezekiel 43:7-9
"Son of man, [this is] the place of my throne and the place of the soles of my feet, where I shall reside in the midst of the sons of Israel to time indefinite; and no more will they, the house of Israel, defile my holy name, they and their kings, by their fornication and by the carcasses of their kings at their death, 8 by their putting their threshold with my threshold and their doorpost beside my doorpost, with the wall between me and them. And they defiled my holy name by their detestable things that they did, so that I went exterminating them in my anger. 9 Now let them remove their fornication and the carcasses of their kings far from me, and I shall certainly reside in the midst of them to time indefinite.

Ezekiel explains that this is a definite requirement before the temple can be re-established or "brought into its right condition".


Fornicating kings!


Revelation 17:1-2
And one of the seven angels that had the seven bowls came and spoke with me, saying: “Come, I will show you the judgment upon the great harlot who sits on many waters, 2 with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, whereas those who inhabit the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication.”


It has to be done!

The blessings for acheiving this are to time indefinite!

In my opinion this is the goal toward which those who are knowing their God should reach.


The leaders and the led?

Understanding who these kings are is very important.

But hey, I have made plenty of posts, several videos and written a book which helps people understand who they are.

Has it helped?

or has it stumbled?


Think about it.


In Christ

abe


the spiritual man examines all things

Jehovah's Witnesses - The Bible Report
The Unforgivable Sin
06-27-2011 11:08 AM
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ablebodiedman
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RE: "The Leaders and the Led"

Ezekiel 43:7-8
by their putting their threshold with my threshold and their doorpost beside my doorpost, with the wall between me and them.


2 Thessalonians 2:4
He is set in opposition and lifts himself up over everyone who is called “god” or an object of reverence, so that he sits down in the temple of The God, publicly showing himself to be a god.


Sure sounds like something the "man of lawlessness" has done; "putting their threshold with my threshold ".


Ezekiel 43:10
“As for you, O son of man, inform the house of Israel about the House, that they may feel humiliated because of their errors,

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
So that is why God lets an operation of error go to them, that they may get to believing the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.


I don't see any Christians feeling humiliated that a "man of lawlessness" has entered their temple.

Instead they deny that such a thing could happen to their temple.

On the other hand, they are ALL happy to claim that they are indeed the ones worshipping in the temple of THE God immediately before Jesus Christ returns.


That is why I refuse to go to any church.


Does that make me an independant?


In Christ

abe


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Jehovah's Witnesses - The Bible Report
The Unforgivable Sin
06-29-2011 11:14 AM
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Willa
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RE: "The Leaders and the Led"

Do you really even talk to other Christians, abe? 'Cause I do and they tell me they don't like what they see and hear in their own churches - men leading them by flesh, doctrines, and hipocracy - instead of by spirit, true love for each other and humility. :cry:

It's epidemic! However, it's the way they, and we, are led to choose to worship independently of institutions; it's how we recognize God's word written on our hearts as opposed to 'smooth words' by wanna-be-evangelizers preaching falsely. Being independent, at this point, is a GOOD thing!

Peace!


:heartbeat: You are my friends! I don't think it just by chance, but by God's Grand Design, that He has guided both our steps... to let your paths cross mine. :heartbeat:
06-30-2011 09:48 AM
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ablebodiedman
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RE: "The Leaders and the Led"

Willa Wrote:
Do you really even talk to other Christians, abe? 'Cause I do and they tell me they don't like what they see and hear in their own churches - men leading them by flesh, doctrines, and hipocracy - instead of by spirit, true love for each other and humility. :cry:

It's epidemic! However, it's the way they, and we, are led to choose to worship independently of institutions; it's how we recognize God's word written on our hearts as opposed to 'smooth words' by wanna-be-evangelizers preaching falsely. Being independent, at this point, is a GOOD thing!

Peace!


Willa,

Yes, I do talk to other Christians who have doubts about their Church and yet they still go.

Do not find too many independants who do not go to Church and yet still take Christianity seriously.

A few on this forum though.


In Christ

abe


the spiritual man examines all things

Jehovah's Witnesses - The Bible Report
The Unforgivable Sin
06-30-2011 05:59 PM
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digging
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RE: "The Leaders and the Led"

veritas post this comment

"Satan’s world is built upon dependence – dependence upon the structures and systems that have been put in place for the purpose of deceiving the masses of mankind"

I would like to add that this dependence goes very deep right to everything we need to live like food, water, and shelter. So now because of this total dependence what will we do. Are we not meant to sense and feel our dependence on God rather that the grocery store and the utility companies?

Digging

07-24-2011 02:04 AM
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