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'MORE' than just a 'force' or 'power'???
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ablebodiedman
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Post: #16
RE: 'MORE' than just a 'force' or 'power'???

Measurer Wrote:
The author continues, “Wherever you find understanding, will and power you must also find an existence. It cannot be a mere attribute. It cannot be a metaphor. It cannot be a personified influence. It must be a person."


Measurer,

I think people get confused by some things that Jesus Christ said.

Is the "Holy Spirit" and "the Helper" the same thing?

I personally think that the Holy Spirit does indeed help people however, I also think the "Helper" is a specific person who is influenced by the Holy Spirit.

Consider what Jesus Christ said:

John 16:12-16
12 “I have many things yet to say to YOU, but YOU are not able to bear them at present. 13 However, when that one arrives, the spirit of the truth, he will guide YOU into all the truth, for he will not speak of his own impulse, but what things he hears he will speak, and he will declare to YOU the things coming. 14 That one will glorify me, because he will receive from what is mine and will declare it to YOU. 15 All the things that the Father has are mine. That is why I said he receives from what is mine and declares [it] to YOU. 16 In a little while YOU will behold me no longer, and, again, in a little while YOU will see me.”


When will this happen?

Jesus Christ said these comforting words after speaking about "an hour" which is to come:


John 16:1-4
16 “I have spoken these things to YOU that YOU may not be stumbled. 2 Men will expel YOU from the synagogue. In fact, the hour is coming when everyone that kills YOU will imagine he has rendered a sacred service to God. 3 But they will do these things because they have not come to know either the Father or me. 4 Nevertheless, I have spoken these things to YOU that, when the hour for them arrives, YOU may remember I told them to YOU.

Throughout the rest of the New Testament the arrival of "the hour" is often spoken about in other contexts. Good idea to do a bible search for "the hour" or "an hour".

I strongly suspect this "Hour" is a very special "appointed time" when some evil things start to happen.

Consider Daniel.

Daniel 11:29
“At the time appointed"



In regards to who this "helper" person is I think the Old Testament gives a very good clue about what to expect in the final part of the days:

Genesis 49:1-2
Later on Jacob called his sons and said: “Gather yourselves together that I may tell YOU what will happen to YOU in the final part of the days. 2 Assemble yourselves and listen, YOU sons of Jacob, yes, listen to Israel YOUR father.

Now consider what Jacob says to Joseph:


Genesis 49:22-26
22 “Offshoot of a fruit-bearing tree, Joseph is the offshoot of a fruit-bearing tree by the fountain, that propels its branches up over a wall. 23 But the archers kept harassing him and shot at him and kept harboring animosity against him. 24 And yet his bow was dwelling in a permanent place, and the strength of his hands was supple. From the hands of the powerful one of Jacob, from there is the shepherd, the stone of Israel. 25 He is from the God of your father, and he will help you; and he is with the Almighty, and he will bless you with the blessings of the heavens above, with the blessings of the watery deep lying down below, with the blessings of the breasts and womb. 26 The blessings of your father will indeed be superior to the blessings of the eternal mountains, to the ornament of the indefinitely lasting hills. They will continue upon the head of Joseph, even upon the crown of the head of the one singled out from his brothers.

As regard the timing I think that this "helper" is sent at the opening of the first seal in the Book of Revelation:

Revelation 6:1-2
6 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures say with a voice as of thunder: “Come!” 2 And I saw, and, look! a white horse; and the one seated upon it had a bow; and a crown was given him, and he went forth conquering and to complete his conquest.


I also think this "helper" is alluded to in Daniel:


Daniel 11:32-34
33 And as regards those having insight among the people, they will impart understanding to the many. And they will certainly be made to stumble by sword and by flame, by captivity and by plundering, for [some] days. 34 But when they are made to stumble they will be helped with a little help


I also think this "helper" is alluded to in Micah:


Micah 2:13
13 “The one making a breakthrough will certainly come up before them: they will actually break through. And they will pass through a gate, and they will go out by it. And their king will pass through before them, with Jehovah at the head of them.”


The one making a breakthrough will certainly come up before them: (opening of the first seal)



In Christ

abe


the spiritual man examines all things

Jehovah's Witnesses - The Bible Report
The Unforgivable Sin
06-26-2011 01:36 PM
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gogh
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Post: #17
RE: 'MORE' than just a 'force' or 'power'???

Luke 11:13

"If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?"


:drinking:


"......."This is my Son, whom I have chosen. Keep listening to him!" Luke 9:35
06-26-2011 02:00 PM
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BruisedReed
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Post: #18
RE: 'MORE' than just a 'force' or 'power'???

Wow ... just logged in and saw all the comments so far ...!!

Thanks so much for the input ...

It too truly think that the HS is somehow something MORE than we may think ... and that 'MAYBE' ... just maybe God's spirit ... and Christ's spirit ... are DIFFERENT altogether ... that there just MIGHT be two things spoken of perhaps ... and in the translations over the years something may have got 'lost' ...

For example ... we have angels, seraphs, archangels, cherubs and even other ranks of spirit beings ... and yet are they not all called 'spirits' ...

If we look closer at the scripture in Rom. 8:27 for example we see that TWO SEPARATE things are being spoken about ... at least that is how I see it anyway ...

It reads ...

(ESV) And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

GNB) And God, who sees into our hearts, knows what the thought of the Spirit is; because the Spirit pleads with God on behalf of his people and in accordance with his will.

So we see that the 'HE who searches hearts' or 'sees in our hearts' is speaking about GOD ...

Then we see that GOD then ALSO 'knows' what THOUGHTS or what is ON OR OF THE MIND ... of WHO ... the Spirit ...

If this was speaking about 'GOD'S OWN SPIRIT' would not it be worded differently? That God's knows what his OWN thoughts or feelings are?

Also, as has been wonderfully brought out ... this 'Spirit' pleads, prays, interceded, feels ...

'WHAT' else but a ... 'WHO' ... someone that was able to THINK, FEEL, ACT, PRAY could do this?

As witnesses we have heard the the holy spirit likened to electricity or power or enegry for example.

So, if we were to take that as all there is to it ... albeit God's power is uncontainable but our standards ... then could we say that the power that we get from electricity or the energy that comes from nuclear plants or whatever sources of the above there is could in ANY SENSE 'think, feel, act, or pray on its own? Could it entercede for us if we were out of power in our homes and tell the electric company we needed help for instance.

I know it probably sounds a wee bit far fetched, but hopefully an appropriate illustration to show tha PERHAPS the 'holy spirit' spoken of here in Romans may be a 'sentient being' SEPARATE from God?

I'm being paged right now so gotta go ...

Any thoughts?

Luv BR sheepette


http://bruisedreednotbroke.blogspot.com
06-26-2011 02:19 PM
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e-magine
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Post: #19
RE: 'MORE' than just a 'force' or 'power'???

NewTruth Wrote:
Hi BR and Emagine:

Friends... I think the Logos @ John 1 is: The Word of God, activated by the Holy Spirit...

I don't think the Holy Spirit was Jesus, in the beginning ... Now, Jesus is the Word of God.. as he earned that title... (but wasn't always)

BR.. the HS could be an extension of God.. and actually a part of God.. as when he or it enters into a righteous person.. Then we have life within ourselves....


There is merit to what NT is thinking above. It is unfortunate for us that the word
"Logos" or "Word" is used to describe the god that was with God in the begining, at Jn1.1. This has led to a paradigm of dualism, where there is two Gods.
A much better word, for us 21st century thinkers, is "mind" or "consciousness".
"In the begining was the conscious mind of God, consciousness was with God, and God was consciousness"
...With this paradigm, we get the connotation that God is aware of himself, and is free to choose to be aware of whatever he chooses to be aware of! "I Am what I Am"
His first choice was a projection of his consciousness. This projection was not seperate from him, it was him, but if there could have been another conscious being to observe, it would have appeared to him that there were 2 Gods, not one.
...This is the materialistic view that most people have, unfortunately.
But God is a spirit of pure consciousness, free to think any of an infinite realities. Any brain that is capable of a self conscious mind,
is part of the conscious mind of God.
What keeps us from seeing that our minds are part of God's mind is EGO. If we can see that, then Jn 1.1 makes perfect sense.
The consciousness of God's mind was in the man Jesus. Jesus was then aware that he was God, his mind and the Fathers mind were one mind. He was able to see beyond his fleshly ego to see that he was connected with God, a part of God.
At that point, "the WORD (mind)
became flesh (within a human brain), and he resided with us, and we had a view of his (God's) glory, a glory that belongs to an only begotten son" vs14.
The HS is not independent from the Father or the son, it is their conscious mind, and it can be our mind as well, once we shed our materialistic egos that force us to see ourselves as ME. By this we can tell that we are also God's children, and one day, Heaven
(God's will) will be done on Earth, because every conscious mind will be aware that it is part of God's mind, one of God's children. vs 12.


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06-26-2011 03:04 PM
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NewTruth
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Post: #20
RE: 'MORE' than just a 'force' or 'power'???

Hi E........
Wouldn't you say that the idea of the ego.. is kinda a new age movement idea.. and that everyone has the Holy S. and that the ego doesn't recognize or allow the holy spirit to work?

I don't know if everyone has the Holy S. in them.. I mostly think not. I was thinking the Holy S. and the spirit are actually 2 different things and one could have their spirit and not the Holy S. What do you think? I admit confusion in this area..

In the Garden, Adam had the breath of life breathed into his nostrils. The JW's say this was the spirit or the impersonal lifeforce.. but I now think God breathed into him his holy spirit.. and that he could have been alive with only his lifeforce.. before that event.. The apemen could have had the spirit but not the Holy S. Or is it all the same.. ?
I 'm not sure... comments?

06-27-2011 01:33 AM
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deborah
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Post: #21
RE: 'MORE' than just a 'force' or 'power'???

I love CS Lewis' explanation in his book 'Mere Christianity' about the Father, Son and the holy Spirit.

http://www.full-proof.org/wp-content/upl...apters.pdf


"I begin this chapter by asking you to get a certain picture clear in your minds. Imagine two books
lying on a table one on top of the other. Obviously the bottom book is keeping the other one
up—supporting it. It is because of the underneath book that the top one is resting, say, two inches
from the surface of the table instead of touching the table. Let us call the underneath book A and the
top one B. The position of A is causing the position of B. That is clear?

Now let us imagine—it could not really happen, of course, but it will do for an illustration—let us
imagine that both books have been in that position for ever and ever. In that case B's position would
always have been resulting from A's position. But all the same, A's position would not have existed
before B's position. In other words the result does not come after the cause. Of course, results usually
do: you eat the cucumber first and have the indigestion afterwards. But it is not so with all causes, and
results. You will see in a moment why I think this important.

I said a few pages back that God is a Being which contains three Persons while remaining one Being, just as a cube contains six squares while remaining one body. But as soon as I begin trying to explain
how these Persons are connected I have to use words which make it sound as if one of them was there before the others. The First Person is called the Father and the Second the Son. We say that the First
begets or produces the second; we call it begetting, not making, because what He produces is of the same kind as Himself.

In that way the word Father is the only word to use. But unfortunately it suggests that He is there first—just as a human father exists before his son. But that is not so. There is no before and after about it. And that is why I have spent some time trying to make clear how one thing can be the source, or cause, or origin, of another without being there before it. The Son exists because the Father exists: but there never was a tune before the Father produced the Son.

Perhaps the best way to think of it is this. I asked you just now to imagine those two books, and probably most of you did. That is, you made an act of imagination and as a result you had a mental
picture. Quite obviously your act of imagining was the cause and the mental picture the result. But that does not mean that you first did the imagining and then got the picture.

The moment you did it, the picture was there. Your will was keeping the picture before you all the time. Yet that act of will and the picture began at exactly the same moment and ended at the same moment. If there were a Being who had always existed and had always been imagining one thing, his act would always have been producing a mental picture; but the picture would be just as eternal as the act.

In the same way we must think of the Son always, so to speak, streaming forth from the Father, like light from a lamp, or heat from a fire, or thoughts from a mind. He is the self-expression of the
Father—what the Father has to say. And there never was a time when He was not saying it. But have you noticed what is happening?

All these pictures of light or heat are making it sound as if the Father and Son were two things instead of two Persons. So that after all, the New Testament picture of a Father and a Son turns out to be
much more accurate than anything we try to substitute for it That is what always happens when you go away from the words of the Bible. It is quite right to go away from them for a moment in order to
make some special point clear. But you must always go back. Naturally God knows how to describe Himself much better than we know how to describe Him.

He knows that Father and Son is more like the relation between the First and Second Persons than anything else we can think of. Much the most important thing to know is that it is a relation of love.
The Father delights in His Son; the Son looks up to His Father.

Before going on, notice the practical importance of this. All sorts of people are fond of repeating the Christian statement that "God is love," But they seem not to notice that the words "God is love" have
no real meaning unless God contains at least two Persons. Love is something that one person has for another person. If God was a single person, then before the world was made, He was not love. Of
course, what these people mean when they say that God is love is often something quite different: they really mean "Love is God."

They really mean that our feelings of love, however and wherever they arise, and whatever results they produce, are to be treated with great respect. Perhaps they are: but that is something quite
different from what Christians mean by the statement "God is love." They believe that the living, dynamic activity of love has been going on in God for ever and has created everything else.

And that, by the way, is perhaps the most important difference between Christianity and all other religions: that in Christianity God is not a static thing—not even a person—but a dynamic, pulsating activity, a life, almost a kind of drama. Almost, if you will not think me irreverent, a kind of dance.

The union between the Father and Son is such a live concrete thing that this union itself is also a Person.

I know this is almost inconceivable, but look at it thus. You know that among human beings, when they get together in a family, or a club, or a trade union, people talk about the "spirit" of that family, or club, or trade union. They talk about its "spirit" because the individual members, when they are together, do really develop particular ways of talking and behaving which they would not have if they were apart. (*)
----
[*] This corporate behaviour may, of course, be either better or worse than their individual behaviour.
----
It is as if a sort of communal personality came into existence. Of course, it is not a real person: it is only rather like a person. But that is just one of the differences between God and us. What grows out of the joint life of the Father and Son is a real Person, is in fact the Third of the three Persons who are God.
This third Person is called, in technical language, the Holy Ghost or the "spirit" of God. Do not be worried or surprised if you find it (or Him) rather vaguer or more shadowy in your mind than the other two. I think there is a reason why that must be so. In the Christian life you are not usually looking at Him: He is always acting through you. If you think of the Father as something "out there," in front of you, and of the Son as someone standing at your side, helping you to pray, trying to turn you into another son, then you have to think of the third Person as something inside you, or behind you.

Perhaps some people might find it easier to begin with the third Person and work backwards. God is love, and that love works through men—especially through the whole community of Christians. But
this spirit of love is, from all eternity, a love going on between the Father and Son.

And now, what does it all matter? It matters more than anything else in the world. The whole dance, or drama, or pattern of this three-Personal life is to be played out in each one of us: or (putting it the
other way round) each one of us has got to enter that pattern, take his place in that dance. There is no other way to the happiness for which we were made. Good things as well as bad, you know, are
caught by a kind of infection. If you want to get warm you must stand near the fire: if you want to be wet you must get into the water. If you want joy, power, peace, eternal life, you must get close to, or
even into, the thing that has them.

They are not a sort of prizes which God could, if He chose, just hand out to anyone. They are a great fountain of energy and beauty spurting up at the very centre of reality. If you are dose to it, the spray
will wet you: if you are not, you will remain dry. Once a man is united to God, how could he not live forever? Once a man is separated from God, what can he do but wither and die?

But how is he to be united to God? How is it possible for us to be taken into the three-Personal life?

You remember what I said in Chapter II about begetting and making. We are not begotten by God, we are only made by Him: in our natural state we are not sons of God, only (so to speak) statues. We have
not got Zoe or spiritual life: only Bios or biological life which is presently going to run down and die.
Now the whole offer which Christianity makes is this: that we can, if we let God have His way, come to share in the life of Christ.

If we do, we shall then be sharing a life which was begotten, not made, which always has existed and always will exist Christ is the Son of God. If we share in this kind of life we also shall be sons of God.
We shall love the Father as He does and the Holy Ghost will arise in us. He came to this world and became a man in order to spread to other men the kind of life He has—by what I call "good infection."
Every Christian is to become a little Christ. The whole purpose of becoming a Christian is simply nothing else"


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06-27-2011 01:39 AM
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Post: #22
RE: 'MORE' than just a 'force' or 'power'???

Thanks Deb! there are a lot of good thoughts here:

In that way the word Father is the only word to use. But unfortunately it suggests that He is there first—just as a human father exists before his son. But that is not so. There is no before and after about it.

In the same way we must think of the Son always, so to speak, streaming forth from the Father, like light from a lamp, or heat from a fire, or thoughts from a mind. He is the self-expression of the
Father—what the Father has to say. And there never was a time when He was not saying it.

notice that the words "God is love" have
no real meaning unless God contains at least two Persons. Love is something that one person has for another person. If God was a single person, then before the world was made, He was not love.

God is not a static thing—not even a person—but a dynamic, pulsating activity, a life, almost a kind of drama. Almost, if you will not think me irreverent, a kind of dance.

The union between the Father and Son is such a live concrete thing that this union itself is also a Person.

We shall love the Father as He does and the Holy Ghost will arise in us. He came to this world and became a man in order to spread to other men the kind of life He has—by what I call "good infection."
Every Christian is to become a little Christ. The whole purpose of becoming a Christian is simply nothing else"


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Henry Ward Beecher-1872 Preacher of Plymouth Church, Brooklyn, in his home later bought by C.H. Russell.
He is looking at the Brooklyn Bridge,,,, is it the way into, or, out of Brooklyn for you?
06-27-2011 10:29 AM
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BruisedReed
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Post: #23
RE: 'MORE' than just a 'force' or 'power'???

Hey beau you said ...

Im guessing if the Holy Spirit is an actual person, then He cant be as "Great" as God or Jesus, as no reference to worshipping the Holy Spirit is mentioned.


I had a thought on this if I may ...

"If" ... and notice I said 'if' ... ;) the Holy Spirit 'is' an actual personage, be it as close as we might be able to grasp ... 'God's wife' ... or someone else ... I personally tend to think that they must be 'GREAT' in deed ...

Remember the scritptural WARNING from Jesus in Matt. 12:31,32 ...

(NWT) 31 “On this account I say to YOU, Every sort of sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the spirit will not be forgiven. 32 For example, whoever speaks a word against the Son of man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the holy spirit, it will not be forgiven him, no, not in this system of things nor in that to come.


Now hopefully I can try to put into words something of my 'feelings' ... but I just know that I won't be able to do it justice for there is just too much that can be said ...

Just, ONE of the things or aspects that I have been in light of scripture is just how many times FAMILY is spoken of ...

HUSBAND
WIFE
CHILDREN

Even when man was created IT WASN'T ENOUGH to just have MAN by himself ... he was INCOMPLETE ... not WHOLE ... in and of himself ... something MORE was needed ...

It seems from scripture that God shows us SO MANY things of HEAVENLY NATURE and one of the ways He seems to do this is, just like his Son did, by the ILLUSTRATIONS as to how things are here on earth ...

Of course the HS wouldn't be 'worshipped' ... if indeed she is the 'female' aspect of the family ... for is not the 'father' the 'head' ...

Then this popped out at me today ... there is always something new that seems to do this ...

Notice the wording of the very familiar scripture at Gen. 2:24 ...

24 That is why a man will leave his father and his mother and he must stick to his wife and they must become one flesh.

There MUCH about the history of Adam and Eve that is LEFT OUT of the written word ... (either by accident or contrivance ... we really cannot say) much more that I think in time will be revealed to let us know the full scope of things ...

And it seems from some of the VERY OLD RECORDED WRITINGS that have been discovered that the 'US' spoken of in creating man included 'male and female' spirit beings ...

But I find it interesting that Jesus, the 'second Adam' quotes the same words to show the closeness and sentiment expressed by the 'first Adam',

Mark 10:6-9 ...


6 However, from [the] beginning of creation ‘He made them male and female. 7 On this account a man will leave his father and mother, 8 and the two will be one flesh’; so that they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God yoked together let no man put apart.”

So, maybe the scriptures don't speak about Holy Spirit as a 'separate' being because of the ONENESS of the marital arrangement perhaps?

The as PARENTS ... in arrangement and purpose they ARE ONE ... thus when the 'father' speaks ... it is as if the 'mother' speaks as well if they are to be in harmony of purpose and unity ...

The wife is important ... for when we see the importance the scriptures place on women we can see they have a special spot ... or why else would our Father make arrangement for 'widows' for example to make sure that they were protected and taken care of ...?

And I also find it interesting that the 'Jerusalem ABOVE' is called OUR MOTHER ...

Why that particular term ...?

I cannot help but note what a 'mother' stands for in the family arrangment for example ... Is it not for her nuturing, caring, teaching, comforting, instructing, healing and so on ... a VERY IMPORTANT part indeed!!

And the Greek word for 'mother' is also interesting to me ...

H517 אם
'êm ame

A primitive word; a mother (as the bond of the family); in a wide sense (both literally and figuratively); (like H1): - dam, mother, X parting.


When we look of the definition of what a BOND is we find some really wonderful analagies to consider IMHO ...

something that binds, fastens, confines, or holds together.
a cord, rope, band, or ligament.
something that binds a person or persons to a certain circumstance or line of behavior:
something, as an agreement or friendship, that unites individuals or peoples into a group; covenant.
binding security; firm assurance:


All these definitions have certainly come to describe the roleof a mother aren't they?

Isn't it usually the mother that makes most of the arrangements let's say for family get togethers to help families stay in touch?
I couldn't help but think of the 'three fold cord' here in the sense of 'father, mother, children' ... and if all are sticking together and working together indeed they would be hard to pull apart ... especially if 'mama' was the 'crazy glue bond'!
And a family who is a 'godly one' is surely bound and united together for a good purpose!
And doesn't a mother offer so much security for her children as they grow up? Do they not feel safe in her love for them?

It would appear that Jessu prayer that he taught us is for us to pray for the SAME THING that would be 'done here on earth' and being done ALSO 'in heaven' ...

And since having good families here on earth is God's will ..

And the scripture says there is ALSO FAMILIES in the heavens ...

Well, I would think we should pray for them too!

Anyway, this probably sounds sort of convoluted but as I said there are so many ways in which I am feeling about it that it is hard to put down in some sort of logical order ...

Well I gotta go and get ready to go out ... but I wanted to respond to you dear br. beau ... and I'm sure you don't mind my crazy way of thinking ... you've seen it often enough ...

Lots of love from your mama/auntie/sis BR :bouncyhearts: ::sheepy:


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06-27-2011 02:51 PM
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Post: #24
RE: 'MORE' than just a 'force' or 'power'???

Hi BR,
Not being cridical, but before we go too far with this female idea, remember that there is no gender among the spirits. They embody body male and female characteristics. The gender references in the Bible are only a convention for our benefit.
The question on the HS being a person is a paradox because, yes, the HS is a person, but not a different person from the Father and Son.
In fact, even refering to God as a person is a simplistic contrivance.
Isn't he very much more then a mere spirit person.


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Henry Ward Beecher-1872 Preacher of Plymouth Church, Brooklyn, in his home later bought by C.H. Russell.
He is looking at the Brooklyn Bridge,,,, is it the way into, or, out of Brooklyn for you?
06-27-2011 03:40 PM
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BruisedReed
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Post: #25
RE: 'MORE' than just a 'force' or 'power'???

Hi br. emagine ...

I'm truly not trying to argumentative nor dogmatic but I would like to try to make a reponse to what you said ...

Not being cridical, but before we go too far with this female idea, remember that there is no gender among the spirits. They embody body male and female characteristics.

I am not so sure this is true ...

If there wasn't a DIFFERENCE between 'genders' ... then how did they come about or be thought of in the first place ...

The scriptrues clearly reveal to us that we are CREATED IN THE IMAGE of the SPIRITS ... or of 'gods' ... which IMHO ... may not 'only' mean plural in the sense of importance ... but could be what it also means ... more than one.

It says in part at Gen. 1:26 ...

26 And God went on to say: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, . . .


The Hebrew word for 'image' is ...

H6754 צלם
tselem tseh'-lem

From an unused root meaning to shade; a phantom, that is, (figuratively) illusion, resemblance; hence a representative figure, especially an idol: - image, vain shew.


The we have the Hebrew word for 'likeness' ...

H1823 דּמוּת
demûth dem-ooth'

From H1819; resemblance; concretely model, shape; adverbially like: - fashion, like (-ness, as), manner, similitude.


So, if we are to take the scripture for what it say, we are made like the spirit creatures above ... only different in the sense of 'substance' perhaps.

That being spirit versus flesh ...

Then he went on further to give more detail by adding ...

Gen. 1:27 ...

27 And God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them.. . .

Male being according to the Hebrew language ...

H2145 זכר
zâkâr zaw-kawr'


From H2142; properly remembered, that is, a male (of man or animals, as being the most noteworthy sex): - X him, male, man (child, -kind).


And then we have the word for 'female' ...

H5347 נקבה
neqêbâh nek-ay-baw'

From H5344; female (from the sexual form): - female, woman.


I wish I could add more but we are on the way out to town ...

But if I could quickly say ... wouldn't it be misleading if he created 'male and female' here in the heavenly images ... if they were not also so in the heavnely sense ...

They may not be exactly the same ... for spirit and flesh are very different after all ... but is it not at least POSSIBLE that there are DIFFERENCES in 'gender' for them?

Anyway, families waiting ... gotta go!

Luv BR


http://bruisedreednotbroke.blogspot.com
06-27-2011 04:27 PM
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NewTruth
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Post: #26
RE: 'MORE' than just a 'force' or 'power'???

Hi Friends..

I read over the recent comments..Here are my thoughts:
I don't think the "Jerusalem Above", our mother, are the angels as the JW's believe, nor do I think it's the Holy S. IMO it is the ones who have died after living a righteous life.

The wife or woman of God has always been in the scriptures, the Isreal of God, whether natural or christians. The Holy S. wouldn't be the woman or wife, but rather God's active force, or his breath.

Also I don't believe Jesus is the same substance as God, anymore than the angels are. It's just that Jesus chose to be more faithful and obedient than the rest of the spirit beings. Jesus became God's son after conquering.. any ideas?

06-28-2011 02:55 AM
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