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Are the "evil slave" Christs brothers?
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ablebodiedman
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Post: #1
Are the "evil slave" Christs brothers?

In the sheep and goats prophecy Jesus Christ indicated that we will be judged by how we treat his brothers.

In Matthew Chapter 24 he says that he is also "master" of the evil slave.


Matthew 24:48-51
48 “But if ever that evil slave should say in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’ 49 and should start to beat his fellow slaves and should eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, 50 the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know, 51 and will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his part with the hypocrites. There is where [his] weeping and the gnashing of [his] teeth will be.


Does that mean the "evil slave" are also Jesus Christs brothers?

and

Does that mean we will also be judged on how we treat the "evil slave"?


What do you think?


In Christ

abe


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07-01-2011 02:57 PM
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Melancholymuse
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Post: #2
RE: Are the "evil slave" Christs brothers?

Isn't Jesus really the master of EVERYONE, whether they accept it or not?


Zeal for your house will consume me -- John 2:17 (HCSB)
07-01-2011 10:40 PM
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ablebodiedman
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RE: Are the "evil slave" Christs brothers?

Melancholymuse Wrote:
Isn't Jesus really the master of EVERYONE, whether they accept it or not?


Melancholymuse,

Yep, then try answering the question from that point of view.

I am trying to get some interesting dialog going as it seems things are getting slow at Paradise Cafe.

I think Rez's latest question about BTG is interesting however, that question has already been given a lot of discussion.

Thought it would be interesting to get some untried dialog going.


In Christ

abe


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07-01-2011 11:10 PM
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isomam
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RE: Are the "evil slave" Christs brothers?

just to lay out the playing field, did jesus ever specifically say that HE was the master in his illustration? [no.]

sooooo, ... what if the master is actually his father? ...... and jesus himself is the faithful slave (the "faithful and true witness" to his father)?

that ought to give the pot an extra stir, don't you think? :whistle:

[of course, abe, that would be entirely incompatible with your specious watchtower-centric theology.] sorry 'bout that.


Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. Of these I am foremost.--1 Timothy 1:15.

Above all things, have INTENSE Love for one another.--1 Peter 4:8.

Sanctify the Christ as Lord in your hearts. ... Hold a good conscience.--1 Peter 3:15, 16.

TRUTH IS SIMPLE.
07-02-2011 12:05 AM
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Melancholymuse
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RE: Are the "evil slave" Christs brothers?

Well, the way I understand it, Jesus Christ was given authority over everything EXCEPT for God Himself, and he keeps this authority until Death is destroyed forever (1 Corinthians 15:24-28). Therefore, I would say that this would currently make Jesus our Master. And since Jesus is to rule for 1,000 years after his return, I'm thinking this means he will continue to be our Master for at least that long.


Zeal for your house will consume me -- John 2:17 (HCSB)
07-02-2011 02:54 AM
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symbiosis
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Post: #6
RE: Are the "evil slave" Christs brothers?

ablebodiedman Wrote:
In the sheep and goats prophecy Jesus Christ indicated that we will be judged by how we treat his brothers.

In Matthew Chapter 24 he says that he is also "master" of the evil slave.


Matthew 24:48-51
48 “But if ever that evil slave should say in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’ 49 and should start to beat his fellow slaves and should eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, 50 the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know, 51 and will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his part with the hypocrites. There is where [his] weeping and the gnashing of [his] teeth will be.


Does that mean the "evil slave" are also Jesus Christs brothers?

and

Does that mean we will also be judged on how we treat the "evil slave"?


What do you think?


In Christ

abe


hi Abe
just thinking out loud
unfortunatley i have only questions and no answers.

how will we recognise the evil slave before christ judges him as such?

how can the evil slave co-exist with the good slave?, does it follow that the good and evil slave must be of different teachings and different parts of the body of christ?

how and why does the evil slave begin to beat his fellow servants when he concludes that his master is slow in coming?

did Christ apply the illustration to individuals or groups?

has the judgment already taken place or is it future?

symbiosis

07-02-2011 05:27 PM
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ablebodiedman
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Post: #7
RE: Are the "evil slave" Christs brothers?

symbiosis Wrote:

ablebodiedman Wrote:
In the sheep and goats prophecy Jesus Christ indicated that we will be judged by how we treat his brothers.

In Matthew Chapter 24 he says that he is also "master" of the evil slave.


Matthew 24:48-51
48 “But if ever that evil slave should say in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’ 49 and should start to beat his fellow slaves and should eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, 50 the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know, 51 and will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his part with the hypocrites. There is where [his] weeping and the gnashing of [his] teeth will be.


Does that mean the "evil slave" are also Jesus Christs brothers?

and

Does that mean we will also be judged on how we treat the "evil slave"?


What do you think?


In Christ

abe


hi Abe
just thinking out loud
unfortunatley i have only questions and no answers.

how will we recognise the evil slave before christ judges him as such?

how can the evil slave co-exist with the good slave?, does it follow that the good and evil slave must be of different teachings and different parts of the body of christ?

how and why does the evil slave begin to beat his fellow servants when he concludes that his master is slow in coming?

did Christ apply the illustration to individuals or groups?

has the judgment already taken place or is it future?

symbiosis


symbiosis,

All good questions!

Quote:
how will we recognise the evil slave before christ judges him as such?


In the sheep and goats prophecy it seems that the ones who support the faithfull slave and the ones who persecute the faithful slave both don't realize that they have done these things to Christs brothers.

So if people are not going to know who the faithful slave is then how are they going to know the evil?

Quote:
how can the evil slave co-exist with the good slave?, does it follow that the good and evil slave must be of different teachings and different parts of the body of christ?


Scripture suggests that a point in time will be reached (the hour) when the faithful slave will not be allowed to coexist with the evil:

John 16:1-4
“I have spoken these things to YOU that YOU may not be stumbled. 2 Men will expel YOU from the synagogue. In fact, the hour is coming when everyone that kills YOU will imagine he has rendered a sacred service to God. 3 But they will do these things because they have not come to know either the Father or me. 4 Nevertheless, I have spoken these things to YOU that, when the hour for them arrives, YOU may remember I told them to YOU.


Quote:
how and why does the evil slave begin to beat his fellow servants when he concludes that his master is slow in coming?


I'm going to guess that the evil slave announce the imminent arrival of Jesus Christ "the due time approaching" and are disappointed.

They are then obliged to say to those they misled by their announcement that; "my master is delaying"

Yes, I'm thinking 1975.

Quote:
did Christ apply the illustration to individuals or groups?


Jesus Christ used singular terms like; "his", "him" or "that" rather than "their" or "them".

The NWT added some terms in brackets though:

Matthew 24:45-51
45 “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. 47 Truly I say to YOU, He will appoint him over all his belongings.
48 “But if ever that evil slave should say in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’ 49 and should start to beat his fellow slaves and should eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, 50 the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know, 51 and will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his part with the hypocrites. There is where [his] weeping and the gnashing of [his] teeth will be.


The only sentiment which sounds plural is where he says; "fellow slaves".

Quote:
has the judgment already taken place or is it future?


I personally think a division or seperation is now taking place however, don't believe a judgment has yet occured.


In Christ

abe


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07-02-2011 06:09 PM
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Jan Kosonen
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Post: #8
RE: Are the "evil slave" Christs brothers?

Hi everyone,
Well my opinion about the good and the evil slave is that every anointed is supposed to be a good slave, giving spiritual food for people in general so that a great croud could be formed for survival for life on earth after the great tribulation. But the evil slaves are the anointed who beat their fellow anointed. And I hope that the govering body will be dissolved and then the anointed will be able to take that responsibility on them selves. And then there will not be any central govering body, but every congregation will be independent and they can then contact an anointed to get direction. It has not yet happend, but I hope this will happen soon. Otherwise I do not understand how these words of Jesus will accomplish.

07-03-2011 11:19 AM
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ablebodiedman
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RE: Are the "evil slave" Christs brothers?

Jan Kosonen Wrote:
Hi everyone,
Well my opinion about the good and the evil slave is that every anointed is supposed to be a good slave, giving spiritual food for people in general so that a great croud could be formed for survival for life on earth after the great tribulation. But the evil slaves are the anointed who beat their fellow anointed. And I hope that the govering body will be dissolved and then the anointed will be able to take that responsibility on them selves. And then there will not be any central govering body, but every congregation will be independent and they can then contact an anointed to get direction. It has not yet happend, but I hope this will happen soon. Otherwise I do not understand how these words of Jesus will accomplish.


Jan,

I do not think the faithfull slave could accomplish that by themselves.

It would require an enormous spiritual battle:

Revelation 17:13-14
These will battle with the Lamb, but, because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, the Lamb will conquer them. Also, those called and chosen and faithful with him [will do so].”



In Christ

abe


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07-03-2011 12:14 PM
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rus virgil
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Post: #10
RE: Are the "evil slave" Christs brothers?

ablebodiedman Wrote:
........................................................

Does that mean the "evil slave" are also Jesus Christs brothers?

and

Does that mean we will also be judged on how we treat the "evil slave"?


What do you think?


In Christ

abe

Jesus himself gives the answer:
Matthew 12:
50. For whosoever shall do the will of my Father who is in heaven, he is my brother, and sister, and mother.

I do not doubt that they were called to be Christ's brothers ,
but the fact that they are doing it or not, (this responsibility) is entirely upon them

Ecclesiastes 7:
29. Behold, this only have I found:
that God made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.

and Isaiah 63:
8. For he said,
Surely, they are my people, children that will not deal falsely: so he was their Saviour.

the reality is, some of "them" have turned to falsity
--------------------------

What is Jesus saying regarding these ones who did not obey the Master ?
Matthew 7
22. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works?

23. And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

so, the last question:

Quote:
Does that mean we will also be judged on how we treat the "evil slave"?


Yes, we will !
HOW ?

It seems here the apostle Paul express better the thought (in the spirit of truth):
2 Corinthians 6:
14. Be not unequally yoked with unbelievers:
for what fellowship have righteousness and iniquity?
or what communion hath light with darkness?


so the answer is to "be not yoked with them" , or, "do not follow them"
- this is a command for Christians

Ultimately they (the workers of iniquity) are part of the "Babylon the G"
and it is written:
Rev. 18;
4. And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come forth, my people, out of her, that ye have no fellowship with her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues:

5. for her sins have reached even unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

By following them , helping them (the evil slave) we "fellowship her sins" and deserves her plagues -- this is a judgement !

in Christ,
rus v.

07-03-2011 02:30 PM
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ablebodiedman
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Post: #11
RE: Are the "evil slave" Christs brothers?

rus,

That was a well thought out answer!

In the prophesy of the sheep and goats however, the people do not seem to be aware who Jesus Christs brothers are.

Both the ones who treat them well and the ones who treat them poorly.

Yet, the Jehovah's Witnesses claim to know who Jesus Christs brothers are.

How can that be reconclied?


In Christ

abe


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07-04-2011 12:20 AM
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symbiosis
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Post: #12
RE: Are the "evil slave" Christs brothers?

Thanks for answering those questions Abe.
i am also thinking 1975 as a definite ID on the evil slave, although there are also many besides the WTO who have proclaimed the second coming as imminent, but only the WTo were clever enough to invent an invisible presence to mask their false teaching.

your question to Rus is a very good one, yes they all ask " when did we see you....."

i would also like to add a recent thought, regarding the seven churches that John is told to write to in revelation.

scripture seems to suggests that those churches all exist just prior to the return of Christ and that is why Christ has rewards and puinishments for them according to their works and teachings, some he speaks of as having bad influences within them for example Jezebel and the teachings of the Nicolations.

so it seems that we being shown a picture of the evil and good slave just prior to their being judged.

Symbiosis

07-04-2011 01:29 PM
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ablebodiedman
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Post: #13
RE: Are the "evil slave" Christs brothers?

Symbiosis,

Yes, the message to the 7 congregations does not paint a pretty picture for Christianity.

Like I said in my answer above I think that an hour before Jesus Christ arrives will occur when the evil and faithfull will no longer coexist.

Made a controversial video about that which I invite you to watch:

Don't let the title stumble you. It is my hope that Jehovah's Witnesses might actually take the time to watch the video:



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07-04-2011 03:06 PM
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New Heart
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Post: #14
RE: Are the "evil slave" Christs brothers?

The good slave...the Body of Christ, will try to lead the Christ's Brother's in charge to no avail.
They are just ORDINARY , POOR, and SIMPLE men and women who hear God's voice. Yet, they seem foolish to the evil slave to even want to listen to them.

The evil slave prevents them, and beats them because they do not want to stirred from slumber. They wish to remain in darkness, remaining drunkards. They wish to remain rich in the kingdom of man, having the mark of the beast kingdom, holding on to the empire they built with their own hands, thus being just like and the same as the other religions of this world. If the good slave was in control, they would not have kept all that money, but would give it all to the poor especially now in these dire economic times. They would prepare the people for all the coming hard times, to be ready, instead of keeping all the money for a publishing company held up in banks of this old world soon to end.

Today
Dream 7/5/11

time 10:55 am

I was seeing so clearly and reading a scroll of an ancient book read...

The Bestowed Ones

The first ones will be found as one who first stirred the Body, to revive them.

These are the those found faithful, those who were the first overcomers.

They saw through the deception within the church, and made it know to others.

They are the first hand picked fruits of God, his Fine Seed, belonging to the Body of Christ.



“To the angela of the church in Sardis write:

These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. 2. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God.

3. Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

4, Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. 5. He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels. 6. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

------------------------------------------


stir definition stir (st?r)

transitive verb stirred, stirring stir'·ring

1.to move, shake, agitate, etc., esp. slightly
2.to change the position of slightly; displace: to stir a log
3.to rouse from sleep, lethargy, indifference, etc.
4.to put (oneself, one's limbs, etc.) into motion or activity, esp. briskly
5.
a.to move an implement, the hand, etc. through (a liquid or loose substance) with an agitated motion so that the particles change position with relation to one another
b.to mix by or as by imparting such a motion to
6.to excite the feelings of; move strongly
7.to incite or provoke: often with up: to stir up trouble
8.to evoke, or call up: to stir memories


----------------------------------------------------------------------


Bestowed Meaning and Definition from Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)

Bestow \Be*stow"\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. Bestowed; p. pr. & vb. n. Bestowing.] [OE. bestowen; pref. be- + stow a place. See Stow.]
1.To lay up in store; to deposit for safe keeping; to stow; to place; to put. ``He bestowed it in a pouch.'' --Sir W. Scott. See that the women are bestowed in safety. --Byron.

2.To use; to apply; to devote, as time or strength in some occupation.

3.To expend, as money. [Obs.]

4.To give or confer; to impart; -- with on or upon. Empire is on us bestowed. --Cowper. Though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor. --1 Cor. xiii. 3.

5.To give in marriage. I could have bestowed her upon a fine gentleman. --Tatler.


O LORD, thou art my God; I will exalt thee, I will praise thy name; for thou hast done wonderful things; thy counsels of old are faithfulness and truth.
07-05-2011 12:31 PM
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New Heart
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RE: Are the "evil slave" Christs brothers?

One of the great prophets was Amos

Amos was a shepherd before the spirit of prophecy came over him. He was a herdsman from the village of Tekoa, and a dresser of sycamore trees. He began his prophecies "in the days of Uzziah king of Judah, and in the days of Jeroboam the son of Joash, the king of Israel...... two years before the earthquake."

His fearless and outspoken words came thundering and stirred the people. Characteristic are his opening words: "God will roar from Zion, and utter His voice from Jerusalem; and the habitations of the shepherds shall mourn, and the top of Carmel shall wither."

By "the shepherds" he must have meant the leaders of Israel, who failed their "flock;" and "the top of Carmel" were likewise those sitting at the top, who will be first to be stricken down.

But before admonishing the Jewish people, he had much to say about the transgressions of Damascus, Gaza, Tyrus, Edom, Ammon and Moab - all the neighbors of the two Jewish kingdoms, who would suffer the consequences of their evil ways.

Then he addresses himself to Judah:

"Thus with God, 'For three transgressions of Judah, and for four, I will not withhold My punishment: because they have despised the Torah of God, and have not kept His commandments...'"

In similar words he begins his prophecy against the Northern Kingdom:

Thus saith God, 'For three transgressions of Israel, and for four, I will not withhold My punishment: because they sold the righteous for silver, and the poor for a pair of sandals...'"

Fearlessly, the prophet admonishes the "Kine (beasts) of Bashan, that are in the mountains of Samaria, who oppress the poor, who crush the needy." He warned the rich who had amassed their fortunes by cheating and robbery, that they would not enjoy their riches, but would lose everything when the land went down in doom.

Said he: "Thus hath said G-d to the House of Israel: 'Seek for Me, and you shall live. Seek for the good, and not evil, in order that you may live; that God the Lord of Hosts, be with you.


Hate evil and love good; and establish justice firmly in the courts. Then, perhaps, God the Lord of Hosts, will be gracious to the remnants of Joseph."

By the "remnants of Joseph" the prophet meant the Kingdom of the Ten Tribes, for it was out of the Tribe of Ephraim, the son of Joseph, that Jeroboam the First came to establish the new kingdom, in opposition to the Kingdom of Judah.

Amos was not afraid to appear in Bethel at the very time when crowds were gathered there to worship the Golden Calf which Jeroboam the First, had set up in a special temple.

In the very midst of the celebration, Amos announced the terrible punishment that God would bring upon the sinful people of Israel. The crowd became angry, and their leader, the false priest Amaziah, incited the people to do violence to Amos.

However, King Jeroboam protected the prophet, and let no harm befall him. Amaziah ridiculed the prophet, warning him to flee to Judah, where people of his kind would be more welcome, and never return to Bethel.

But Amos replied that he was no professional prophet, nor a prophet's disciple, but a simple man from the land, a breeder of sheep. Amos declared boldly and fearlessly that God had sent him to Bethel to speak in His Name and warn the people of their impending doom.

The prophet reminded the people of the many kindnesses which God had shown them since the beginning of their history as a people. "You only, have I known of all the families of the earth; therefore I will visit upon you all your sins." the prophet said, telling them that because God has chosen them as His people, He demands of them higher standards, and, like a loving father punishes his erring son just because he loves him, so God would punish them for their sins.

The Book of Amos consists of nine chapters, but despite his severe admonitions in most of the book, he finishes his prophecies on a happy note, of the wonderful things that will happen to the Jewish people on "That Day," on the day of the true Redemption:

"In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old...

"Behold, the days come, saith God, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt.


And I will bring back the captivity of My people Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them. And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith God thy God."


The Father has told me to tell of Amos, and to warn them, that.... " unless they repent...I am coming quickly!"

Prepare my people!


O LORD, thou art my God; I will exalt thee, I will praise thy name; for thou hast done wonderful things; thy counsels of old are faithfulness and truth.
07-05-2011 01:16 PM
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