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Nephilim?!
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BruisedReed
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Post: #1
Nephilim?!

Good morning everyone! :grouphug:

A friend just showed me this and and I just HAD to share this with ya'll, it was sooo exciting to see!:thumbsup:

Hopefully, this is 'new' to the board and I am not showing something already discussed ... but it IS new to me anyway ...;)

Is it 'possible' that this may be archeological evidence of the existence of the Biblical description of the Nephilim or maybe of the what my hubby call the Carpathian people? (probably didn't spell it right)

Anyway, what do you think?

Here are some IMHO cool links ...:blush:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tI8q8xTSo...re=related


This one is also cool ... not yet sure what it is ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-61FdeOx...re=related

There are other really interesting links on the side of the page that seems connected to this find in India as well!

Perhaps if these are indeed evidence of the Nephilim, it could explain why so many cultures have 'stories' about 'giants' ... and if they are indeed Nephilim I would hazard to say that they had some kind of supernatural abilities being that they were the offspring of spirits beings!

Anyway, I going to take a look at some of these now ...

Just wanted to 'share' as I drink my coffee ... and didn't want to drink it alone!:drinking::grouphug:

Luv to ya'll, BR :sheepy::bouncyhearts:


http://bruisedreednotbroke.blogspot.com
07-05-2011 10:11 AM
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RR144
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Post: #2
RE: Nephilim?!

I've seen these pictures before, they appear on various websites. Just google "nephilim photos" and you'll see a lot of site about them, you'll also see a equally amount of sites debunking these photos saying they are a hoax, photoshop.

RR


We are called to be witnesses, not lawyers or judges.

07-06-2011 05:51 PM
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BruisedReed
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RE: Nephilim?!

Hi there RR144!

Thanks for the input. I don't know anything about the 'hoaxes' you mentioned, although I do know that such can abound and in many 'fields'.

However, I don't think that the size of this skeleton is outside the realm of possibility, at least according to scripture from I have looked up on the matter.

As to there being 'Nephilim' after the flood ... well ... it would seem that there WERE such 'beings' AFTER the flood according to these verses.

For example, we have the account at Numbers 13:33 ...

33 And there we saw the Nephilim, the sons of A´nak, who are from the Nephilim; so that we became in our own eyes like grasshoppers, and the same way we became in their eyes.

Now when we look at the Hebrew word for 'Nephilim' we can see that it doesn't always necessarily mean a 'giant' persay according to this Strong's definition ...

H5303 נפל נפיל
nephı̂yl nephil nef-eel', nef-eel'


From H5307; properly, a feller, that is, a bully or tyrant: - giant.


So, some could reasonably reason that the spies could have been speaking about their 'disposition' and perhaps their 'military force' and in comparison the Israelites were not as 'strong' as they ...

But, in digging further on this subject, as I tend to do don't ya know, I discovered this scripture as well ...

Deuteronomy 2:10 ...

10 (The E´mim dwelt in it in former times, a people great and numerous and [b]tall like the An´a•kim. [/b]


The 'Emim' according to the NWT footnote says ...

Or, “frightful creatures.”

And the Strong's definition says ...

H368 אימים
'êymı̂ym ay-meem'

Plural of H367; terrors; Emim, an early Canaanitish (or Moabitish) tribe: - Emims.

H367 אמה אימה
'êymâh 'êmâh ay-maw', ay-maw'

From the same as H366; fright; concretely an idol (as a bugbear): - dread. fear, horror, idol, terrible, terror.

H366 אים
'âyôm aw-yome'

From an unused root (meaning to frighten); frightful: - terrible.


Sorry to have to cut off so abruptly but as I do have some more thoughts on this but just got a phone and have to take my son to town for an appointment.

So, I'll be back ...

In the meantime any comments or observations is more than welcome as always from you my dear family!:heartbeat::grouphug:

Luv BR :sheepy: :bouncyhearts:


http://bruisedreednotbroke.blogspot.com
07-07-2011 08:59 AM
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e-magine
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RE: Nephilim?!

Hi BR, The WT has always said that the fallen angles dematerialized at the flood and all there offspring were left behind and perished, but is there really any scriptural proof of this. Also, they say that the Nephilim were sterile and had no offspring. What proof? Even Mules have been known to produce offspring.


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Henry Ward Beecher-1872 Preacher of Plymouth Church, Brooklyn, in his home later bought by C.H. Russell.
He is looking at the Brooklyn Bridge,,,, is it the way into, or, out of Brooklyn for you?
07-07-2011 09:18 PM
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Derek
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RE: Nephilim?!

Hi Bruised Reed and all,
IF, given a literal understand of the Flood account were a reality, then it is a considerably stretch of the imagination that Nephilim skeletons would be found intact as if interred. Who buried them anyway? Didn't everyone breathing on the surface of the ground, drown? Didn't all the sedimentary rocks get rearranged?

The Anakim were a tribe of Canaanites with a genetic disposition to being tall. If I remember correctly, their digits were in sixes and Goliath, was thought to be of this tribe, was about nine feet tall (six cubits and a span).

I think the Israelites recalled the stories of the giants of the pre-flood world, so they thought of the Nephilim when they saw the Anakim.

Warm regards
Derek



We go in faith, our own great weakness feeling,
And needing more each day Thy grace to know:
Yet from our hearts a song of triumph pealing,
“We rest on Thee, and in Thy Name we go.”
07-08-2011 01:16 PM
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e-magine
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Post: #6
RE: Nephilim?!

Hi Derek, Are you saying that no skeletons or fossil remains exist from pre flood times?
There have been many great floods. Are you taking Noah's flood account as it is literally written? Two of the large beasts etc.?


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Henry Ward Beecher-1872 Preacher of Plymouth Church, Brooklyn, in his home later bought by C.H. Russell.
He is looking at the Brooklyn Bridge,,,, is it the way into, or, out of Brooklyn for you?
07-08-2011 02:30 PM
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Jan Kosonen
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Post: #7
RE: Nephilim?!

Hi BruisedReed,
I've also seen these giant skeletons. There are so many examples of them, so I believe they exist. There is a scripture which says every matter is established by 2 or 3 witnesses. So why should we not believe it?

07-08-2011 04:22 PM
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BruisedReed
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Post: #8
RE: Nephilim?!

Hi all, :hibye:

Sorry for the delay in getting back ... been to lawyers twice this week to help prepare a friend for court next week in a child custody thing ... just got back a bit ago ... very tired but thought I would like to add a wee bit more before putting my feet up ...

As to who buried this 'giant people' ... well perhaps this scripture might help in answering although it doesn't say technically or speicifially 'who' the 'WHO' is ...

Deuteronomy 3:11 ...

For only Og the king of Ba´shan remained of what was left of the Reph´a•im. Look! His bier was a bier of iron. Is it not in Rab´bah of the sons of Am´mon? Nine cubits is its length, and four cubits its width, by the cubit of a man.

I decided to try and figure out just how BIG or TALL this man must have been and this is what I came up with ... although I'm not totally sure if it is accurate in the equivalents ... maybe those who are more mathematically inclined will be able to confirm or not ...

First of all of course we know that a 'bier' is rather like a coffin ... and the footnote for the bier described above says ...

Or, “a sarcophagus of black basalt.” The Arabs still refer to basalt as iron.


Now to the conversions ...

9 Nine cubits = 13,35 ft,
4 four cubits = 5.9333 ft.


So, it would appear that this king was around 13 feet tall and around 6 feet in width if we look at the size of his sarcophagus wouldn't it! A pretty big guy that would fit the description of a GIANT I would say!!

Now, if we look at another scripture we can see that the SIZE of this man doesn't appear to be an isolated case ... as the scripture in Numbers said "the SONS (PLURAL) of A´nak" that there seems to have been many people with an extraordinary height when compared with the average size of men as we know them ...

Amos 2:9 ...

9 “‘But as for me, I had annihilated the Am´or•ite on account of them, whose height was like the height of cedars, and who was vigorous like the massive trees; and I went annihilating his fruitage above and his roots below.


Now, when we look at the 'average' height of a cedar tree ... on the low end of the scale we see it to be around according to one source I found ...

50 feet but they can be know to reach 100 or more feet in height!

And here is what another one had to say ...

Cedar trees grow to an average height of 30 - 40 meters. Some are occasionally known to grow up to 70 meters.

Now when I tried to convert this it came up to ...

30 m = 98.4251 '

Which I think translates into 98 feet!

So, if the use of the 'cedar tree' is to show a 'scale of height' in some way ... and men were to be like GRASSHOPPERS ... it would seem that THESE PARTICULAR men being spoken about would have been even TALLER then the king of Og at 9 feet!!

For it would appear that the average height of a Hebrew man is ...

162.1 cm = 5.31824 '
OR 5 ' and 3.81 "


So, could it really be said a man at 5 and a half feet say ... as compared to a man at 9 feet be thought of as a 'grasshopper' to a 'cedar tree'?

To me when I got to thinking on this and the spies reports of the people who lived in the 'promised land' they were to inherit ... if this Israelite men DEFEATED such an INCREDIBLE thing as subduing GIANTS, and obviously 'giants' who were skilled and fearsome, then they could ONLY have done so with the HELP OF THEIR GOD!!

No wonder, people came to FEAR THE POWER of the God of the Israelites, and there 'hearts would melt'!!

Anyway, I'm really tired and not sure if I have this in logical order, just grabbed some stuff from my word document to try and finish my earlier thought and answer some of the other comment a wee bit!

Luv to ya'll yours sis BR :sheepy: :bouncyhearts:

PS ... dear br. Jan ... I tend to believe it as well ... for if we claim to believe that the Bible is historically and archeologically accurate, then how can we not think this giants existed before and/or the flood?

PPS ... br. emagine ... when you said ...

The WT has always said that the fallen angles dematerialized at the flood and all their offspring were left behind and perished


EXACTLY!!!

They offer STATEMENTS ... but where is the PROOF to back them up??

There is much more going on in this world than just meets the eye as it were!


http://bruisedreednotbroke.blogspot.com
07-08-2011 07:51 PM
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Seraphim
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Post: #9
RE: Nephilim?!

The writers of the bible, and the old testament in particular, because its older, didn't view historical accuracy as we do today. Its a grave mistake to think they did.

07-08-2011 11:01 PM
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BruisedReed
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RE: Nephilim?!

Hi there seraphim! :hibye:

So are you saying that the measurements that the bier of the king of Bashan sarcophagus is not accurate?

That he 'couldn't' have have been that large a man?

Just curious

Luv BR sheepette


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07-09-2011 11:34 AM
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Seraphim
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RE: Nephilim?!

No im not saying that im just being cautious as to what conclusion to draw. I can imagine that a king might have a big sarcophagus by virtue of being a king in order to serve as a status denoter. Often in ancient art a king is depicted as much bigger than the subjects not because he was, but because it reflected status and his divinity if was thought to have that which was not uncommon back then. Also fertility god and goddess worship back then tended to, how shall I put it, make things bigger if you know what I mean. A big guy would have a big everything else, which is very important if one is into fertility worship. Typically though as in our day much gets exaggerated. Another thing is the term sarcophagus also gets translated as bedstead. That could mean his bed was bigger than him, because if he had many wives as was common back then in order to practice fertility worship with, a bed only his size wouldn't be very practical. Another problem with cubits is that they change from person to person. If a subject built the bed or sarcophagus for him, if he was a small man his cubits would be small as well. Such ancient measurements were not necessarily objective like measurements today are.

There are too many assumptions going on with things like this it constantly runs the risk of assuming facts not in evidence. One wrong assumption along the way will invalidate any conclusion so its risky. I think the bible was inspired but it was inspired through the lens of the values, culture and comprehension of the people of the time. Its something to bare in mind.

07-09-2011 12:28 PM
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Derek
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RE: Nephilim?!

Hi E-magine,
Sorry, there was a certain amount of 'tongue in cheek' humour about my post when I mentioned the Flood. :)

Whilst the Anakim were a very tall Canaanite tribe, and other very tall humans have existed, I do not believe them to be the Nephilim.
When one reads the actually Nephilim account all one can say is, "Phew!"

Who knows if the tall humans found were the ones referred to in scripture during the Israelite occupation of the Promised Land?

There once was a beaver in N.A. 3 metres long, it is no big deal there have been big humans.....there has also been very small humans. However, some of the extreme height claims seem to be way outside the parameters possible for an erect standing biped!

Once dragonflies existed that would have made me run! :)

I personally do not believe in the fundamentalist, and unbelievable, all mountain covering, Earth-wide deluge.

"The Flood", is the universal explain all to those who make fact from fiction...and not even science fiction at that! :) ;) .
God bless
Derek


e-magine Wrote:
Hi Derek, Are you saying that no skeletons or fossil remains exist from pre flood times?
There have been many great floods. Are you taking Noah's flood account as it is literally written? Two of the large beasts etc.?



We go in faith, our own great weakness feeling,
And needing more each day Thy grace to know:
Yet from our hearts a song of triumph pealing,
“We rest on Thee, and in Thy Name we go.”
07-09-2011 01:20 PM
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digging
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RE: Nephilim?!

I've always thought neanderthal man was really the bones of them. Since they were very strong and were canibals.

Digging

07-09-2011 06:55 PM
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Derek
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Post: #14
RE: Nephilim?!

Hi Digging,
I don't think so.
The Neanderthals were the robust humans of Northern Europe throughout the ice ages, they were strong and had a larger brain capacity than modern humans....their skulls were enlarged at the back indicating an highly developed visual cortex and likely had far better sight than us homo sapiens.
I don't know if neanderthals were any more prone to cannibalism than sapiens.
Derek

digging Wrote:
I've always thought neanderthal man was really the bones of them. Since they were very strong and were canibals.

Digging



We go in faith, our own great weakness feeling,
And needing more each day Thy grace to know:
Yet from our hearts a song of triumph pealing,
“We rest on Thee, and in Thy Name we go.”
07-11-2011 10:44 AM
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BruisedReed
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RE: Nephilim?!

Good afternoon all ... :hibye::grouphug:

Just a thought 'sort of' related to diggings comment ... and yet not as it isn't about 'neanderthals' ... just the cannibal aspect perhaps ...

In rereading the scripture at Num. 13:32 I noticed something the other day that grossed me out if it is 'literal' in connotation ...

(Darby) And they brought to the children of Israel an evil report of the land which they had searched out, saying, The land, which we have passed through to search it out, is a land that eateth up its inhabitants; and all the people that we have seen in it are men of great stature;

DRB) (13:33) And they spoke ill of the land, which they had viewed, before the children of Israel, saying: The land which we have viewed, devoureth its inhabitants: the people, that we beheld are of a tall stature.

(ERV) So those men gave a report that discouraged the people. They said, "The land we saw is full of strong people. They are strong enough to easily defeat anyone who goes there.

(ESV) So they brought to the people of Israel a bad report of the land that they had spied out, saying, "The land, through which we have gone to spy it out, is a land that devours its inhabitants, and all the people that we saw in it are of great height.


In looking up the meaning of the Hebrew word for 'eat or devour' it says ...

H398 אכל
'âkal aw-kal'

A primitive root; to eat (literally or figuratively): - X at all, burn up, consume, devour (-er, up), dine, eat (-er, up), feed (with), food, X freely, X in . . . wise (-deed, plenty), (lay) meat, X quite.


It would seem to me then, this people were truly a ferocious people indeed, especially so if they ATE people along with being extremely adept at warfare ... and hence why the spies were so afraid of them!

Just a thought ...

BR :sheepy::bouncyhearts:


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07-11-2011 12:51 PM
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